Seems kinda silly to look to place the burden on 3rd party apps to solve this? I
Yes, i agree, it's basically nonsense. I was asking it just out of curiosity, not really because i would want push such solution. Thing is, i'm coder too (that's my job , although not iOS oriented, so it was just my proffesional interest ...
My best argument for AudioBus is to have audio recordable directly to the Sampler at this time. Once audio tracks become available, then that may change.
I’m glad internal IAA has been dropped - way too many issues when changing projects often. IAA stability is just too poor - a simple AudioBus connection is way better. Connect up your IAA app and record it then get rid of it.
I’ve simply found it better though to just record parts of any IAAs I must have (which is rare now) in another app in a totally different session. I make a quick stereo audio mix of the track I’m working on and send it to Cubasis to record the IAA parts to. The sessions are kept separate so that any ghosting is not messing with my other sessions after I restart my iPad. It’s all rare though now as I don’t use many of the Stash of IAAs I have - most are not even on my iPad.
The main reason I could see others needing AudioBus is for connecting separate elements of a jamming rig together, in this AudioBus switching of apps is really handy.
Just to add, I can export audio and midi out of NS2 if I really need to use material from it live jamming - I’m simply not likely to use NS2 as something like Stage lights clip launcher, or AUM audio loops etc work better.
I must admit that if AB support would be added to NS, i would probably install back again some old gems like Waldorf NAVE, Korg iOddysei, iPolysix - sampling galore for me
It's like - i can live without them, worst case i buy Oddysei HW :-D .. but IF .. then i would not be unhappy
I must admit that if AB support would be added to NS, i would probably install back again some old gems like Waldorf NAVE, Korg iOddysei, iPolysix - sampling galore for me
Yes for sampling it would be handy. I used to sample Nave and the Korg apps lots in BM3 because trying to run IAA just was a nightmare of problems.
Especially have a fondness for Nave as I used to have a Waldorf XTK
OK, there’s a lot of conceptual confusion here. I’ll take a stab at clarifying things. Hopefully I don’t cause more confusion than there already is.
@User_Error said:
Yeah, that’s what I mean. Instead of AB running like IAA, do the same thing as AU.
Like I said, not possible. AudioBus a host for AU and IAA apps, therefore it can’t become an AU itself. AU’s can’t host other apps.
I’m grossly over-simplifying this, and in the end it may not be possible. But AB is essentially just routing audio from point A to B. The whole purpose of the app was to connect audio out to audio in.
Can’t there be an AU app (AB or some other yet to be made app) that routes audio from IAA apps to AU hosts? We can already connect MIDI to IAA apps (as far as I know), so all we need is to get audio into hosts like NS2. If one app could bridge that gap, apparently abandoned apps like Nave would be saved from obsolecence. Just a thought.
No app can force its sound into any other app. The app has to open up a way for it to get in. Either the app has to implement the AudioBus SDK so that it can send to and/or receive from AudioBus, or it has to implement IAA to allow sound in and out, or both. (Actually AudioBus itself uses IAA, but for simplicity let’s not go into that).
Or just use MIDI & Audioshare. That’s pretty simple. Maybe AudioShare could be the app to add AU...?
If I correctly understand how you mean that, it would be no help. This post will get too long if I try to go into this one in detail. If you want to describe how you would picture using that to do something, I can try to respond.
Really, I don’t even need AU. Can’t we get a virtual patch cable to get the audio out of IAA apps plugged into the audio in of NS2? I’m no programmer, so I may be way off, but that doesn’t sound like it should be so hard to do.
You’re completely right, and completely wrong at the same time.
“Can’t we get a virtual patch cable...”
Yes. AudioBus and IAA are those virtual patch cables. But NS2 doesn’t include a jack to plug the cable into. Without a jack, the patch cable can’t do anything. Adding AudioBus and/or IAA input and output ports to NS2 is what is required to provide a way in and out. No other app can accomplish that. Only Matt can make it happen.
Is it hard to do? Well ... I’m not enough of a programmer to say. But I have read the documentation about how to do it on a basic level and it doesn’t seem massively difficult to add AudioBus support. But there is a big pile of “possibly not massive” things to consider doing. Whether to do it or when is up to Matt to decide.
@number37
Is it hard to do? Well ... I’m not enough of a programmer to say. But I have read the documentation about how to do it on a basic level and it doesn’t seem massively difficult. But there is a big pile of “possibly not massive” things to consider doing. Whether to do it or when is up to Matt to decide.
Thing is.. with all new features (including AB support), almost always most complicated stuff is UI. Although it looks trivial, it isn't. Perfectly designed UI to the last single pixel is one of main reasons why workflow in NS is so fluid. Every new UI element needs to be designed also in context of iPhone version - and lot of limitations arise from that. That's why Matt already wrote somewhere that with every feature request he would appreciate also some kind of proposal how that particular feature should be implemented in terms of UI ..
In my own experience, if you start thinking more deeply in context of current UI (and all things i wrote above) how to ideally implement UI for new feature you dream about, often you realise that it is not that good idea at all ) Because it makes things clunky.
At least that my personal experience about lot things i proposed during development (or better don't proposed at all, after i went through process of thinking what the hell should be UI for such feature)
It looks simple.. but believe me, some elements of NS went through pretty painful way of many try - throw away cycles .. Proper UI is biggest pain in ass, not DSP coding
@number37
Is it hard to do? Well ... I’m not enough of a programmer to say. But I have read the documentation about how to do it on a basic level and it doesn’t seem massively difficult. But there is a big pile of “possibly not massive” things to consider doing. Whether to do it or when is up to Matt to decide.
Thing is.. with all new features (including AB support), almost always most complicated stuff is UI. Although it looks trivial, it isn't. Perfectly designed UI to the last single pixel is one of main reasons why workflow in NS is so fluid. Every new UI element needs to be designed also in context of iPhone version - and lot of limitations arise from that. That's why Matt already wrote somewhere that with every APP request he would appreciate also some kind of propasal how that particular feature should be implemented in terms of UI .. It looks simple.. but believe me, some things went through pretty painful way of many try - throw away cycles .. Proper UI is biggest pain in ass, not DSP coding
If and when Matt decides to take on AudioBus or IAA input and output for NS2, I’ll be happy to try to contribute suggestions re UI interaction if asked. It is easier to respond to questions about it than to try to anticipate what those would be. There are also examples abounding (AUM, Cubasis, and Auria Pro come to mind) of how it’s usually been done that can be used to assess what works well and what doesn’t.
It’s putting the cart before the horse at this point to go further, I feel.
@number37
Is it hard to do? Well ... I’m not enough of a programmer to say. But I have read the documentation about how to do it on a basic level and it doesn’t seem massively difficult. But there is a big pile of “possibly not massive” things to consider doing. Whether to do it or when is up to Matt to decide.
Thing is.. with all new features (including AB support), almost always most complicated stuff is UI. Although it looks trivial, it isn't. Perfectly designed UI to the last single pixel is one of main reasons why workflow in NS is so fluid. Every new UI element needs to be designed also in context of iPhone version - and lot of limitations arise from that. That's why Matt already wrote somewhere that with every APP request he would appreciate also some kind of propasal how that particular feature should be implemented in terms of UI .. It looks simple.. but believe me, some things went through pretty painful way of many try - throw away cycles .. Proper UI is biggest pain in ass, not DSP coding
Yep we can appreciate that. Luckily the NS2 UI seems pretty capable of future expansion of some features without any UI changes beyond some long press functions. I know many peeps hate long press functions, but they are often a way to put in some more seldom used functions without adding lots more buttons, switches and pages to the UI.
This is the most unused page for myself, but could see it having different functionality use at a later date.
Besides, Matt and you guys only really needs to trouble yourselves with AU midi record and my mini timeline to get your next years treats, so don’t be worrying about such trivia as AudioBus connections
@number37 said:
OK, there’s a lot of conceptual confusion here. I’ll take a stab at clarifying things. Hopefully I don’t cause more confusion than there already is.
@User_Error said:
Yeah, that’s what I mean. Instead of AB running like IAA, do the same thing as AU.
Like I said, not possible. AudioBus a host for AU and IAA apps, therefore it can’t become an AU itself. AU’s can’t host other apps.
I’m grossly over-simplifying this, and in the end it may not be possible. But AB is essentially just routing audio from point A to B. The whole purpose of the app was to connect audio out to audio in.
Can’t there be an AU app (AB or some other yet to be made app) that routes audio from IAA apps to AU hosts? We can already connect MIDI to IAA apps (as far as I know), so all we need is to get audio into hosts like NS2. If one app could bridge that gap, apparently abandoned apps like Nave would be saved from obsolecence. Just a thought.
No app can force its sound into any other app. The app has to open up a way for it to get in. Either the app has to implement the AudioBus SDK so that it can send to and/or receive from AudioBus, or it has to implement IAA to allow sound in and out, or both. (Actually AudioBus itself uses IAA, but for simplicity let’s not go into that).
Or just use MIDI & Audioshare. That’s pretty simple. Maybe AudioShare could be the app to add AU...?
If I correctly understand how you mean that, it would be no help. This post will get too long if I try to go into this one in detail. If you want to describe how you would picture using that to do something, I can try to respond.
Really, I don’t even need AU. Can’t we get a virtual patch cable to get the audio out of IAA apps plugged into the audio in of NS2? I’m no programmer, so I may be way off, but that doesn’t sound like it should be so hard to do.
You’re completely right, and completely wrong at the same time.
“Can’t we get a virtual patch cable...”
Yes. AudioBus and IAA are those virtual patch cables. But NS2 doesn’t include a jack to plug the cable into. Without a jack, the patch cable can’t do anything. Adding AudioBus and/or IAA input and output ports to NS2 is what is required to provide a way in and out. No other app can accomplish that. Only Matt can make it happen.
Is it hard to do? Well ... I’m not enough of a programmer to say. But I have read the documentation about how to do it on a basic level and it doesn’t seem massively difficult to add AudioBus support. But there is a big pile of “possibly not massive” things to consider doing. Whether to do it or when is up to Matt to decide.
Thanks for the clarifications @number37 !! It all seems so simple, but I am sure it is not. My problems with IAA came when trying to sequence them. Sampling them into AudioShare like @Fruitbat1919 mentions was a less frustrating work around. I’d hate to see IAA make NS2 frustrating or clunky to use. I’m a bit more ambivilant about AB. It always seemed a stable app and if NS2 allowed it I wouldn’t mind, so long as it isn’t the first domino in a long chain that delays real progress on other features.
My thought on AB & AU may be impssible from a coding perspective, but I think conceptually AB’s purpose is to route audio between apps. That’s its fote.
If AU is the future based on the desktop model, AB would stay more relevant and very useful during the transition to help us get better use out of abandoned IAA apps, IF, and it is a big ‘if’, it could takenover routing audio to AU. It doesn’t need to houst apps like we expect out of an AU DAW host were you have all fuctions of synths at your finger tips.
Conceptually in AB I saw it as: IAA/AB app > possible filter > generic AB/AU. The ‘generic’ AB/AU is a plugin that AB creates to transfer audio to a AU host like NS2 or BM3 or whatever DAW. It’s just a connection in two parallel audio streams or workflow. Since NS2 only has a AU ‘audio jack’, we need an adaptor (like minijack > 1/4”). 😊
This would add AU audio input (not full AU functionality) to apps that are unlikely to ever be converted to AU. I’d pay for that upgrade. Call it AB4 or whatever. But if it isn’t possible on the coding side, then this excercise in ‘what would be nice’ is mute, and I’ll drop it. Was nice a thought to entertain myself with briefly.
Whatever happens, I hope the developer can avoid the app bloat that could come by incorporating old code. Nothing could be as bad as Microsoft, right...?
Hi @User_Error
Short answer: Nope. What you’re hoping for is impossible for AudioBus or ANY other app to provide. It is simply impossible to route audio from one app to another without AudioBus or IAA. It is also impossible for AudioBus to become an AU. The solution has to come from Matt. No one else can do it.
I don’t know how to explain it any better, so I’ll just leave it at that.
@number37 said:
Hi @User_Error
Short answer: Nope. What you’re hoping for is impossible for AudioBus or ANY other app to provide. It is simply impossible to route audio from one app to another without AudioBus or IAA. It is also impossible for AudioBus to become an AU. The solution has to come from Matt. No one else can do it.
I don’t know how to explain it any better, so I’ll just leave it at that.
Ok, the way I see it, is that what's happening, when ns2 and ab3 are both active and outputting audio, is the ipad's hardware main outputs contain the sum of the audio sources. For me that suffices, the interapp connectivity dilemma on the device itself is virtually tangential when put in perspective. Presses pause on cassette recorder...
@number37 said:
Hi @User_Error
Short answer: Nope. What you’re hoping for is impossible for AudioBus or ANY other app to provide. It is simply impossible to route audio from one app to another without AudioBus or IAA. It is also impossible for AudioBus to become an AU. The solution has to come from Matt. No one else can do it.
I don’t know how to explain it any better, so I’ll just leave it at that.
Ok, the way I see it, is that what's happening, when ns2 and ab3 are both active and outputting audio, is the ipad's hardware main outputs contain the sum of the audio sources. For me that suffices, the interapp connectivity dilemma on the device itself is virtually tangential when put in perspective. Presses pause on cassette recorder...
More and more, recording to tape seems like less of a hassle.
@number37 said:
Hi @User_Error
Short answer: Nope. What you’re hoping for is impossible for AudioBus or ANY other app to provide. It is simply impossible to route audio from one app to another without AudioBus or IAA. It is also impossible for AudioBus to become an AU. The solution has to come from Matt. No one else can do it.
I don’t know how to explain it any better, so I’ll just leave it at that.
Ok, the way I see it, is that what's happening, when ns2 and ab3 are both active and outputting audio, is the ipad's hardware main outputs contain the sum of the audio sources. For me that suffices, the interapp connectivity dilemma on the device itself is virtually tangential when put in perspective. Presses pause on cassette recorder...
More and more, recording to tape seems like less of a hassle.
If the NS2 forums became the NS Tape recording forums, we would still be hassling the dev for more lol
Comments
Yes, i agree, it's basically nonsense. I was asking it just out of curiosity, not really because i would want push such solution. Thing is, i'm coder too (that's my job
, although not iOS oriented, so it was just my proffesional interest ...
My best argument for AudioBus is to have audio recordable directly to the Sampler at this time. Once audio tracks become available, then that may change.
I’m glad internal IAA has been dropped - way too many issues when changing projects often. IAA stability is just too poor - a simple AudioBus connection is way better. Connect up your IAA app and record it then get rid of it.
I’ve simply found it better though to just record parts of any IAAs I must have (which is rare now) in another app in a totally different session. I make a quick stereo audio mix of the track I’m working on and send it to Cubasis to record the IAA parts to. The sessions are kept separate so that any ghosting is not messing with my other sessions after I restart my iPad. It’s all rare though now as I don’t use many of the Stash of IAAs I have - most are not even on my iPad.
The main reason I could see others needing AudioBus is for connecting separate elements of a jamming rig together, in this AudioBus switching of apps is really handy.
Just to add, I can export audio and midi out of NS2 if I really need to use material from it live jamming - I’m simply not likely to use NS2 as something like Stage lights clip launcher, or AUM audio loops etc work better.
@Fruitbat1919
I must admit that if AB support would be added to NS, i would probably install back again some old gems like Waldorf NAVE, Korg iOddysei, iPolysix - sampling galore for me
It's like - i can live without them, worst case i buy Oddysei HW :-D .. but IF .. then i would not be unhappy
Yes for sampling it would be handy. I used to sample Nave and the Korg apps lots in BM3 because trying to run IAA just was a nightmare of problems.
Especially have a fondness for Nave as I used to have a Waldorf XTK
OK, there’s a lot of conceptual confusion here. I’ll take a stab at clarifying things. Hopefully I don’t cause more confusion than there already is.
Like I said, not possible. AudioBus a host for AU and IAA apps, therefore it can’t become an AU itself. AU’s can’t host other apps.
No app can force its sound into any other app. The app has to open up a way for it to get in. Either the app has to implement the AudioBus SDK so that it can send to and/or receive from AudioBus, or it has to implement IAA to allow sound in and out, or both. (Actually AudioBus itself uses IAA, but for simplicity let’s not go into that).
If I correctly understand how you mean that, it would be no help. This post will get too long if I try to go into this one in detail. If you want to describe how you would picture using that to do something, I can try to respond.
You’re completely right, and completely wrong at the same time.
Yes. AudioBus and IAA are those virtual patch cables. But NS2 doesn’t include a jack to plug the cable into. Without a jack, the patch cable can’t do anything. Adding AudioBus and/or IAA input and output ports to NS2 is what is required to provide a way in and out. No other app can accomplish that. Only Matt can make it happen.
Is it hard to do? Well ... I’m not enough of a programmer to say. But I have read the documentation about how to do it on a basic level and it doesn’t seem massively difficult to add AudioBus support. But there is a big pile of “possibly not massive” things to consider doing. Whether to do it or when is up to Matt to decide.
By the way, IAA really stands for I am agrivation
Ohh lovely synth the orange desktop version is still one of my most loved HW VA synths... maybe one day i buy it again
cannot get such sounds from any iOS synth available, that FM modulation is epic
And it was multitimbral - loved it! When I sold that, my Alesis Andromeda and my Emu rack sampler, I could have cried!
Thing is.. with all new features (including AB support), almost always most complicated stuff is UI. Although it looks trivial, it isn't. Perfectly designed UI to the last single pixel is one of main reasons why workflow in NS is so fluid. Every new UI element needs to be designed also in context of iPhone version - and lot of limitations arise from that. That's why Matt already wrote somewhere that with every feature request he would appreciate also some kind of proposal how that particular feature should be implemented in terms of UI ..
In my own experience, if you start thinking more deeply in context of current UI (and all things i wrote above) how to ideally implement UI for new feature you dream about, often you realise that it is not that good idea at all
) Because it makes things clunky.
At least that my personal experience about lot things i proposed during development (or better don't proposed at all, after i went through process of thinking what the hell should be UI for such feature)
It looks simple.. but believe me, some elements of NS went through pretty painful way of many try - throw away cycles .. Proper UI is biggest pain in ass, not DSP coding
If and when Matt decides to take on AudioBus or IAA input and output for NS2, I’ll be happy to try to contribute suggestions re UI interaction if asked. It is easier to respond to questions about it than to try to anticipate what those would be. There are also examples abounding (AUM, Cubasis, and Auria Pro come to mind) of how it’s usually been done that can be used to assess what works well and what doesn’t.
It’s putting the cart before the horse at this point to go further, I feel.
Yep we can appreciate that. Luckily the NS2 UI seems pretty capable of future expansion of some features without any UI changes beyond some long press functions. I know many peeps hate long press functions, but they are often a way to put in some more seldom used functions without adding lots more buttons, switches and pages to the UI.
This is the most unused page for myself, but could see it having different functionality use at a later date.
Besides, Matt and you guys only really needs to trouble yourselves with AU midi record and my mini timeline to get your next years treats, so don’t be worrying about such trivia as AudioBus connections
I know it’s off topic, but I still find AudioShare one of the best solutions for sampling IAA and then exporting decent samples
Thanks for the clarifications @number37 !! It all seems so simple, but I am sure it is not. My problems with IAA came when trying to sequence them. Sampling them into AudioShare like @Fruitbat1919 mentions was a less frustrating work around. I’d hate to see IAA make NS2 frustrating or clunky to use. I’m a bit more ambivilant about AB. It always seemed a stable app and if NS2 allowed it I wouldn’t mind, so long as it isn’t the first domino in a long chain that delays real progress on other features.
My thought on AB & AU may be impssible from a coding perspective, but I think conceptually AB’s purpose is to route audio between apps. That’s its fote.
If AU is the future based on the desktop model, AB would stay more relevant and very useful during the transition to help us get better use out of abandoned IAA apps, IF, and it is a big ‘if’, it could takenover routing audio to AU. It doesn’t need to houst apps like we expect out of an AU DAW host were you have all fuctions of synths at your finger tips.
Conceptually in AB I saw it as: IAA/AB app > possible filter > generic AB/AU. The ‘generic’ AB/AU is a plugin that AB creates to transfer audio to a AU host like NS2 or BM3 or whatever DAW. It’s just a connection in two parallel audio streams or workflow. Since NS2 only has a AU ‘audio jack’, we need an adaptor (like minijack > 1/4”). 😊
This would add AU audio input (not full AU functionality) to apps that are unlikely to ever be converted to AU. I’d pay for that upgrade. Call it AB4 or whatever. But if it isn’t possible on the coding side, then this excercise in ‘what would be nice’ is mute, and I’ll drop it. Was nice a thought to entertain myself with briefly.
Whatever happens, I hope the developer can avoid the app bloat that could come by incorporating old code. Nothing could be as bad as Microsoft, right...?
Hi @User_Error
Short answer: Nope. What you’re hoping for is impossible for AudioBus or ANY other app to provide. It is simply impossible to route audio from one app to another without AudioBus or IAA. It is also impossible for AudioBus to become an AU. The solution has to come from Matt. No one else can do it.
I don’t know how to explain it any better, so I’ll just leave it at that.
On a side note the Audiobus beta with midi learn just dropped so should make things very interesting.
Ok, the way I see it, is that what's happening, when ns2 and ab3 are both active and outputting audio, is the ipad's hardware main outputs contain the sum of the audio sources. For me that suffices, the interapp connectivity dilemma on the device itself is virtually tangential when put in perspective. Presses pause on cassette recorder...
More and more, recording to tape seems like less of a hassle.
If the NS2 forums became the NS Tape recording forums, we would still be hassling the dev for more lol