@bygjohn said:
Drat. NS1 did. Wish I’d spotted that before buying it, just assumed it would be a standard feature Makes it a whole lot less useful for me.
I very much understand this, at least same basic AB support would be great.
But maybe later ;-)
The decision not to include even basic AudioBus support, meaning the ability to be loaded as an input to provide sound, an output to receive sound, and the basic AudioBus sidebar support is extremely unfortunate. It’s the only blot on what is otherwise the most exciting and over-the-top amazing app I’ve ever used on iOS. It’s a really big deal, and makes me sad every time I open it up.
I respect Blip’s right to make that decision, but hope it will be reconsidered. As wonderful as NS2 is, I will always be using other tools along with it. Having to resort to recording and exporting / importing the results to do that is a big creativity roadblock.
I also firmly believe NS2 will get hammered for this in App Store reviews and in forums and elsewhere online. That is a huge pity because otherwise this app deserves nothing but the highest praise.
It’s that basic functionality I’m missing. NS1 was missing sync facilities but did the audio. NS2 can sync, but what for? You can’t route the audio anywhere so why bother syncing? The sadness you mention is pretty much how I feel. NS2 is effectively a closed box. I couldn’t even load a loop into it using the share sheet, ended up copying and pasting. It’s like stepping back in time.
More like stepping forward in time but a little uncomfortably far. I firmly believe the IAA format has come to the end of its road. Audiobus in its current form is incompatible with the AU scheme but that may well change. I don’t believe there’s much sense in building IAA support into NS2 but there is all the sense in the world in making AB work well with AU.
@Stiksi said:
More like stepping forward in time but a little uncomfortably far. I firmly believe the IAA format has come to the end of its road. Audiobus in its current form is incompatible with the AU scheme but that may well change. I don’t believe there’s much sense in building IAA support into NS2 but there is all the sense in the world in making AB work well with AU.
Could you explain what you mean by this? AB works well as an AU host. I can’t imagine any other use for it in an “AU scheme”. What does that even mean? Just trying to understand.
Yeah, I could have worded that better, it’s getting late here. 🙂 I mean in the sense that it can send audio to other AU hosts. At least I’m not aware of it being able to do that. I’m guessing this is not too far away anyway, it’s a nexus app (or THE nexus app), so I’m sure there’s something in the works.
@Stiksi said:
Yeah, I could have worded that better, it’s getting late here. 🙂 I mean in the sense that it can send audio to other AU hosts. At least I’m not aware of it being able to do that. I’m guessing this is not too far away anyway, it’s a nexus app (or THE nexus app), so I’m sure there’s something in the works.
It can. But the host has to enable that via the AudioBus SDK. Otherwise it’s impossibe for Audiobus to do that. Blip has elected not to do that, so there’s no hope of the Audiobus developers being able to make it happen.
I'll be honest: Admittedly I've been a black hole making this app but I've got a bit confused about what Audiobus is these days and how it fits since the arrival of AU. It seems to have got more complex and I can't tell if it's a workaround/patch up interface for loads of older technologies or if it's still central and essential.
If we're talking super simple audio I/O of some sort then I'm not closed to the idea. I just don't want to do anything which requires deep integration. Come on, try and give me a sales pitch!
@Blip Interactive said:
I'll be honest: Admittedly I've been a black hole making this app but I've got a bit confused about what Audiobus is these days and how it fits since the arrival of AU. It seems to have got more complex and I can't tell if it's a workaround/patch up interface for loads of older technologies or if it's still central and essential.
If we're talking super simple audio I/O of some sort then I'm not closed to the idea. I just don't want to do anything which requires deep integration. Come on, try and give me a sales pitch!
To be honest, AB is the most central App for me.
It glues everything together and allows to reload compete setups with lots of Apps.
You build NS2 as a solution to do everything within the App itself, which is great.
But many people making music on iOS really want to use lots of other Apps as well.
And AB, with its way to route Audio and MIDI and save the compete setup is just fantastic, esp. with the sidebar where you can control other Apps and switch easily to them. Also as an additional remote control on another device.
Maybe have a short chat with Michael from AB?
I can ask him to register here, as I imaging you have no time left at all
That could help to find together - or maybe recognize that it's not a good idea.
But I for one would even pay for an IAP that allows AB support!
10 Euro or more is this worth for me.
Hi @Blip Interactive , thanks so much for taking the time out to consider this. I’ll start by saying up front that not including IAA support is IMO the right call. And, that AB and IAA are tied up together, maybe more than is healthy, but Apple forced that.
That said, I hope that just implementing the bare minimum for allowing NS2 to work inside AB is possible without polluting your code and without consuming a lot of time. From what I can understand from the SDK documentation, I think it is, but I’m no developer.
Here is what I’d hope to see and why. I would like that NS2 can be loaded into an audio “input” slot in AudioBus. This means that it can send audio out into AudioBus. And, that it can be loaded into an audio “output” slot, meaning that it can accept audio from AudioBus. Finally, I would like it to implement the AudioBus toolbar, which is a universal app switcher with a global start/stop button that makes it possible to start everything in sync. With this, you can also have start/stop/record buttons (others too, but these are the most important).
The purpose of this is so that NS2 can play along with all the other wonderful apps we own conveniently. We can use the audio from it, pass audio to it from other apps, and start / stop / sync it easily.
There is a side of AudioBus for midi sending and routing. That seems more involved to implement, and truthfully isn’t that essential to me.
Lastly, AudioBus can be implemented with one or many audio inputs and outputs and also done in such a way that when NS is loaded into an output slot that an audio channel is automatically created in NS. Again, more involved to implement, and really not that necessary, especially since audio tracks aren’t implemented yet.
I hope that clarifies something or other. Michael at AudioBus is the guy to hook up with. Thanks for considering it!
Thanks so much for your thoughtful consideration. If you decide not to do it, I thoroughly trust it will be for very good reasons.
I’m almost as amazed at how responsive you are on the forum as with how absolutely bug free (knock wood) this release is. I’ve never seen anything like it on iOS. Nothing but feature requests on the forum so far.
As the thread starter, I’d like to add my thanks, too. number37's post sums up my thoughts exactly. If NS gets audio tracks soon, then being able to record audio from other apps via Audiobus makes it a much more useful proposition.
@bygjohn said:
As the thread starter, I’d like to add my thanks, too. number37's post sums up my thoughts exactly. If NS gets audio tracks soon, then being able to record audio from other apps via Audiobus makes it a much more useful proposition.
Agreed! For sampling to pads or key zones, slate and obsidian already have that covered. All I really want is a clean way to record my other synth outputs in perfect sync, and the ability to likewise trigger/record the iMS20’s sequencer and output. I can do that now with Xequencer and Auria in tandem, but the workflow is a headache. When I discovered and got into the NS2 workflow, it was almost automatic, so having the audio track capability will be the end of Auria (for sure) on my iPad.
Personally, Audiobus support would be almost entirely about occasional quick sampling of not-yet-AU instruments (like Animoog or Samplr) directly into Obsidian or Slate.
If NS were also an AB audio input, occasionally integrating a few IAA effects without AU counterparts (like Crystalline) would be cool.
Not sure how much I'd actually do this but I reckon a big boon for NS2 as AB audio sender would be to support folks who want to use one or more Obsidian instances along with non-NS instruments/effects, all triggered from other sequencers (and/or mixed via something like AUM).
@User_Error said:
I’m hopeful that AudioBus will get a nice AU wrapper so iOS tech can move forward.
I dont think that is possible. AudioBus is an AU host. AU’s can’t host other AUs or any other app. Therefore AudioBus can’t itself run as an AU.
I’m trying to imagine how that would look, even if it were possible? AudioBus running inside NS2 hosting other apps? Why? I feel like maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean.
@Will said:
Personally, Audiobus support would be almost entirely about occasional quick sampling of not-yet-AU instruments (like Animoog or Samplr) directly into Obsidian or Slate.
If NS were also an AB audio input, occasionally integrating a few IAA effects without AU counterparts (like Crystalline) would be cool.
Not sure how much I'd actually do this but I reckon a big boon for NS2 as AB audio sender would be to support folks who want to use one or more Obsidian instances along with non-NS instruments/effects, all triggered from other sequencers (and/or mixed via something like AUM).
I think I’d mainly use it for a) feeding into audio tracks in NS2 when they come available, and b) using NS2 itself as an “instrument” alongside other apps like Electribe Wave, Patterning, GrooveRider, ApeMatrix, etc, that can’t run inside NS2.
I think it’s a shame that audiobus is being discussed as a necessity in a new daw. The things mentioned in this thread should all be internal functions for ns2 imho. Much tidier and would make for a more ‘complete’ environment.
@User_Error said:
I’m hopeful that AudioBus will get a nice AU wrapper so iOS tech can move forward.
I dont think that is possible. AudioBus is an AU host. AU’s can’t host other AUs or any other app. Therefore AudioBus can’t itself run as an AU.
I’m trying to imagine how that would look, even if it were possible? AudioBus running inside NS2 hosting other apps? Why? I feel like maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean.
Yeah, that’s what I mean. Instead of AB running like IAA, do the same thing as AU. I’m grossly over-simplifying this, and in the end it may not be possible. But AB is essentially just routing audio from point A to B. The whole purpose of the app was to connect audio out to audio in.
Can’t there be an AU app (AB or some other yet to be made app) that routes audio from IAA apps to AU hosts? We can already connect MIDI to IAA apps (as far as I know), so all we need is to get audio into hosts like NS2. If one app could bridge that gap, apparently abandoned apps like Nave would be saved from obsolecence. Just a thought.
Or just use MIDI & Audioshare. That’s pretty simple. Maybe AudioShare could be the app to add AU...? Really, I don’t even need AU. Can’t we get a virtual patch cable to get the audio out of IAA apps plugged into the audio in of NS2? I’m no programmer, so I may be way off, but that doesn’t sound like it should be so hard to do.
@flockz said:
I think it’s a shame that audiobus is being discussed as a necessity in a new daw. The things mentioned in this thread should all be internal functions for ns2 imho. Much tidier and would make for a more ‘complete’ environment.
Agreed. We can use MIDI out. There was a day when that’s all your workstation synth could do. Mixing and recording audio where separate pieces of kit. Not cheap.
@User_Error said:
I’m hopeful that AudioBus will get a nice AU wrapper so iOS tech can move forward.
I dont think that is possible. AudioBus is an AU host. AU’s can’t host other AUs or any other app. Therefore AudioBus can’t itself run as an AU.
I was already asking @brambos about this. Or to be more precise i was asking if it would be in theory possible make AU which will be able to work as AB source / destination OR host directly IAA instrument.
He explained to me that it is highly unlikely. It was something about limited sandbox enviroment in which AU plugin is running, so make AU plugin capable to work as AB node (or load IAA instrument ) would most probably not work.
He can explain it more in detail. Looks this is not possible, although would be elegant and smart solution. Pity.
As it is now, ns2 is running standalone in the setup I set up over the years including audiobus, auria, aum, midifire, mididesigner, quantum, keyboards, bcr2000, audio&midi usb interfaces, another ipad, a soundsystem with a mixer, a linux desktop at home. I wanted it to become a sequencing environment, a live and studio simulation, (hurrah!), and at the same time I'm with @drez enjoying the nanostudio only experience again, and all that setting up was a personal parallel development process until this point, ns2 representing exactly that, and it's in here like forever, hurrah!
@User_Error said:
I’m hopeful that AudioBus will get a nice AU wrapper so iOS tech can move forward.
I dont think that is possible. AudioBus is an AU host. AU’s can’t host other AUs or any other app. Therefore AudioBus can’t itself run as an AU.
I was already asking @brambos about this. Or to be more precise i was asking if it would be in theory possible make AU which will be able to work as AB source / destination OR host directly IAA instrument.
He explained to me that it is highly unlikely. It was something about limited sandbox enviroment in which AU plugin is running, so make AU plugin capable to work as AB node (or load IAA instrument ) would most probably not work.
He can explain it more in detail. Looks this is not possible, although would be elegant and smart solution. Pity.
Seems kinda silly to look to place the burden on 3rd party apps to solve this? IAA support is existing tech and could just be implemented in ns2... no need for audiobus or other dev try and make an au that hosts au. Wrong solution imho..
Comments
NS2 doesn't support audiobus, and likely never will. Confirmed by the developer in other audiobus threads.
Drat. NS1 did. Wish I’d spotted that before buying it, just assumed it would be a standard feature
Makes it a whole lot less useful for me.
I very much understand this, at least same basic AB support would be great.
But maybe later ;-)
For what it’s worth, I hope Audiobus finds its place in the AU workflow. That’s probably the way we’ll get support for it.
I think this ship has irrevocably sailed, but I'll let @Blip Interactive confirm.
Fwiw, I fully support this decision. Focus on core strength and stability.
BTW what’s happened to all the old forum posts? Can’t seem to find a link.
The decision not to include even basic AudioBus support, meaning the ability to be loaded as an input to provide sound, an output to receive sound, and the basic AudioBus sidebar support is extremely unfortunate. It’s the only blot on what is otherwise the most exciting and over-the-top amazing app I’ve ever used on iOS. It’s a really big deal, and makes me sad every time I open it up.
I respect Blip’s right to make that decision, but hope it will be reconsidered. As wonderful as NS2 is, I will always be using other tools along with it. Having to resort to recording and exporting / importing the results to do that is a big creativity roadblock.
I also firmly believe NS2 will get hammered for this in App Store reviews and in forums and elsewhere online. That is a huge pity because otherwise this app deserves nothing but the highest praise.
It’s that basic functionality I’m missing. NS1 was missing sync facilities but did the audio. NS2 can sync, but what for? You can’t route the audio anywhere so why bother syncing? The sadness you mention is pretty much how I feel. NS2 is effectively a closed box. I couldn’t even load a loop into it using the share sheet, ended up copying and pasting. It’s like stepping back in time.
More like stepping forward in time but a little uncomfortably far. I firmly believe the IAA format has come to the end of its road. Audiobus in its current form is incompatible with the AU scheme but that may well change. I don’t believe there’s much sense in building IAA support into NS2 but there is all the sense in the world in making AB work well with AU.
Could you explain what you mean by this? AB works well as an AU host. I can’t imagine any other use for it in an “AU scheme”. What does that even mean? Just trying to understand.
Yeah, I could have worded that better, it’s getting late here. 🙂 I mean in the sense that it can send audio to other AU hosts. At least I’m not aware of it being able to do that. I’m guessing this is not too far away anyway, it’s a nexus app (or THE nexus app), so I’m sure there’s something in the works.
It can. But the host has to enable that via the AudioBus SDK. Otherwise it’s impossibe for Audiobus to do that. Blip has elected not to do that, so there’s no hope of the Audiobus developers being able to make it happen.
I'll be honest: Admittedly I've been a black hole making this app but I've got a bit confused about what Audiobus is these days and how it fits since the arrival of AU. It seems to have got more complex and I can't tell if it's a workaround/patch up interface for loads of older technologies or if it's still central and essential.
If we're talking super simple audio I/O of some sort then I'm not closed to the idea. I just don't want to do anything which requires deep integration. Come on, try and give me a sales pitch!
To be honest, AB is the most central App for me.
It glues everything together and allows to reload compete setups with lots of Apps.
You build NS2 as a solution to do everything within the App itself, which is great.
But many people making music on iOS really want to use lots of other Apps as well.
And AB, with its way to route Audio and MIDI and save the compete setup is just fantastic, esp. with the sidebar where you can control other Apps and switch easily to them. Also as an additional remote control on another device.
Maybe have a short chat with Michael from AB?
I can ask him to register here, as I imaging you have no time left at all
That could help to find together - or maybe recognize that it's not a good idea.
But I for one would even pay for an IAP that allows AB support!
10 Euro or more is this worth for me.
OK, not a bad pitch! (don't worry I know Michael).
Question: what are these other apps you need to connect to, and would you prefer them to be AUs within a host:
It seems to me you want the other apps to be AUs, not Audiobus per se.
Hi @Blip Interactive , thanks so much for taking the time out to consider this. I’ll start by saying up front that not including IAA support is IMO the right call. And, that AB and IAA are tied up together, maybe more than is healthy, but Apple forced that.
That said, I hope that just implementing the bare minimum for allowing NS2 to work inside AB is possible without polluting your code and without consuming a lot of time. From what I can understand from the SDK documentation, I think it is, but I’m no developer.
Here is what I’d hope to see and why. I would like that NS2 can be loaded into an audio “input” slot in AudioBus. This means that it can send audio out into AudioBus. And, that it can be loaded into an audio “output” slot, meaning that it can accept audio from AudioBus. Finally, I would like it to implement the AudioBus toolbar, which is a universal app switcher with a global start/stop button that makes it possible to start everything in sync. With this, you can also have start/stop/record buttons (others too, but these are the most important).
The purpose of this is so that NS2 can play along with all the other wonderful apps we own conveniently. We can use the audio from it, pass audio to it from other apps, and start / stop / sync it easily.
There is a side of AudioBus for midi sending and routing. That seems more involved to implement, and truthfully isn’t that essential to me.
Lastly, AudioBus can be implemented with one or many audio inputs and outputs and also done in such a way that when NS is loaded into an output slot that an audio channel is automatically created in NS. Again, more involved to implement, and really not that necessary, especially since audio tracks aren’t implemented yet.
I hope that clarifies something or other. Michael at AudioBus is the guy to hook up with. Thanks for considering it!
Yep, fair points - I'll take them on board, thanks.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful consideration. If you decide not to do it, I thoroughly trust it will be for very good reasons.
I’m almost as amazed at how responsive you are on the forum as with how absolutely bug free (knock wood) this release is. I’ve never seen anything like it on iOS. Nothing but feature requests on the forum so far.
Outstanding job!
As the thread starter, I’d like to add my thanks, too. number37's post sums up my thoughts exactly. If NS gets audio tracks soon, then being able to record audio from other apps via Audiobus makes it a much more useful proposition.
I’m hopeful that AudioBus will get a nice AU wrapper so iOS tech can move forward.
Agreed! For sampling to pads or key zones, slate and obsidian already have that covered. All I really want is a clean way to record my other synth outputs in perfect sync, and the ability to likewise trigger/record the iMS20’s sequencer and output. I can do that now with Xequencer and Auria in tandem, but the workflow is a headache. When I discovered and got into the NS2 workflow, it was almost automatic, so having the audio track capability will be the end of Auria (for sure) on my iPad.
Personally, Audiobus support would be almost entirely about occasional quick sampling of not-yet-AU instruments (like Animoog or Samplr) directly into Obsidian or Slate.
If NS were also an AB audio input, occasionally integrating a few IAA effects without AU counterparts (like Crystalline) would be cool.
Not sure how much I'd actually do this but I reckon a big boon for NS2 as AB audio sender would be to support folks who want to use one or more Obsidian instances along with non-NS instruments/effects, all triggered from other sequencers (and/or mixed via something like AUM).
I dont think that is possible. AudioBus is an AU host. AU’s can’t host other AUs or any other app. Therefore AudioBus can’t itself run as an AU.
I’m trying to imagine how that would look, even if it were possible? AudioBus running inside NS2 hosting other apps? Why? I feel like maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean.
I think I’d mainly use it for a) feeding into audio tracks in NS2 when they come available, and b) using NS2 itself as an “instrument” alongside other apps like Electribe Wave, Patterning, GrooveRider, ApeMatrix, etc, that can’t run inside NS2.
I think it’s a shame that audiobus is being discussed as a necessity in a new daw. The things mentioned in this thread should all be internal functions for ns2 imho. Much tidier and would make for a more ‘complete’ environment.
Yeah, that’s what I mean. Instead of AB running like IAA, do the same thing as AU. I’m grossly over-simplifying this, and in the end it may not be possible. But AB is essentially just routing audio from point A to B. The whole purpose of the app was to connect audio out to audio in.
Can’t there be an AU app (AB or some other yet to be made app) that routes audio from IAA apps to AU hosts? We can already connect MIDI to IAA apps (as far as I know), so all we need is to get audio into hosts like NS2. If one app could bridge that gap, apparently abandoned apps like Nave would be saved from obsolecence. Just a thought.
Or just use MIDI & Audioshare. That’s pretty simple. Maybe AudioShare could be the app to add AU...? Really, I don’t even need AU. Can’t we get a virtual patch cable to get the audio out of IAA apps plugged into the audio in of NS2? I’m no programmer, so I may be way off, but that doesn’t sound like it should be so hard to do.
Agreed. We can use MIDI out. There was a day when that’s all your workstation synth could do. Mixing and recording audio where separate pieces of kit. Not cheap.
I was already asking @brambos about this. Or to be more precise i was asking if it would be in theory possible make AU which will be able to work as AB source / destination OR host directly IAA instrument.
He explained to me that it is highly unlikely. It was something about limited sandbox enviroment in which AU plugin is running, so make AU plugin capable to work as AB node (or load IAA instrument ) would most probably not work.
He can explain it more in detail. Looks this is not possible, although would be elegant and smart solution. Pity.
As it is now, ns2 is running standalone in the setup I set up over the years including audiobus, auria, aum, midifire, mididesigner, quantum, keyboards, bcr2000, audio&midi usb interfaces, another ipad, a soundsystem with a mixer, a linux desktop at home. I wanted it to become a sequencing environment, a live and studio simulation, (hurrah!), and at the same time I'm with @drez enjoying the nanostudio only experience again, and all that setting up was a personal parallel development process until this point, ns2 representing exactly that, and it's in here like forever, hurrah!
Seems kinda silly to look to place the burden on 3rd party apps to solve this? IAA support is existing tech and could just be implemented in ns2... no need for audiobus or other dev try and make an au that hosts au. Wrong solution imho..