First of all, I would to thank Matt for this latest update. NanoStudio2 has become my favorite music creation tool out of all the ones I have tried, on iOS, on the computer and among hardware groove boxes. I am a big fan of the app and so it's sad to know that current sales are putting future development in jeopardy.
I have not done the research to know what kind of numbers competitive DAWs are generating in terms of revenue on iOS these days. However, I think NanoStudio might be at a disadvantage compared to the competition because of the lack of key features like audio tracks. For some people, this is simply a showstopper. It's been a topic of discussion on this forum and others, and new users are likely to take that into consideration when investing in a DAW. Personally, it's not a huge deal but when I work in other apps which do have audio tracks (BeatMaker3, for example), I so wish that NanoStudio 2 had the same. There are workarounds, but they are just that...
Not sure if Matt has totally abandoned the idea of developing audio tracks. They were advertised as a "coming soon" feature upon release. I understand that things might have changed. However, if I were him, I would run the numbers and see if it makes economic sense to continue development and offer audio tracks as an IAP. I would guess it would be an instant buy for 70-80% if not more of current NanoStudio owners. It won't make him rich but it's not a total waste of time either. Especially because with audio tracks, NanoStudio would stand as a pretty complete solution for music makers on iOS which for me would be far superior to anything currently out there. I get that after the initial excitement about the platform, things might have slowed down. But personally I still believe in its long term potential and with the convergence of iOS and computer OS, there is a real opportunity. NanoStudio is simply too good to be abandoned.
@Blip Interactive thanks for update,will made life easier;) didn’t tried it yet as I’m busy and generally didn’t touch music for couple of months:/ anyway I hope you will find way as I’m ready to support you as well. I’m not fan of subscriptions but could definitely live with it knowing ns2 will stay compatible with future devices plus occasionally got some updates;) btw. I’ll mention it again I’ll pay lot for wavetable packs if you could drop some same way as sample packs perhaps;;)
Just don’t be shy;) there is whole bunch of people who would chip in one way or the other.
Hi Mat and thank you for your update! I hope you (and all the other amazing people here at the forum) are staying safe and well.
You have a loyal fan base Mat, I hope you feel that. You have always had a loyal fan base!
Many of us are willing to pay you money without any sort of commitment from your side apart from updates now and then (nothing fancy, bug fixes and in time adding some new features). For myself a yearly update is enough.
I totally understand that it takes time to develop an app but NS2 is great and I'm not the only one who thinks so. I hope you feel that as well.
I understand that it might feel "weird" (not finding a better word) to have us pay you on Patreon/Paypal/subscription so that you can continue to work on NS2 but for many of us it is worth it. By enabling you to develop the app we are also helping ourselves.
Please let us help ourselves by giving us the option to help you. NS2 is awesome, NS2 is the best DAW on iOS and if available on MacOS, well that would be outstanding (not a feature request, just a fact...).
I would be very happy if you could share a PayPal account where we can put some money in the meantime while you are thinking about ways drive the development further.
If it's OK with Apple you could add that link in the app as well otherwise a subscription without anything extra would be OK. I think that more people than you might think will be positive about giving you some extra money just by writing a small note describing the situation (the About Us page already have 90% of the content needed).
I think Im not the only one already doing this type of "charity"/investment already and that is for less useful things than NS2. You have nothing to loose on this.
I would just like to add my voice to the crowd of those who would be more than happy to throw more money at Matt. I paid just $20 for NS2 two years ago, and that just doesn't seem fair to him, given how much joy and fun I have had with it.
I don't have any pressing personal need for additional features (eg audio), but I would happily pay for them as in-app purchases. (In fact my preferred additional feature would be automation of external plugins (eg fabfilter) before audio tracks - but I don't expect those as free updates! But they would be great )
My biggest fear would be that NS2 stopped working after one of Apple's ever more unavoidable iOS updates. I hate that I am forced to update my OS (and potentially lose functionality of older apps) by their increasingly compulsory iOS updates. I used to avoid the updates as long as possible but it's getting more and more impractical and difficult to do that.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand! I would more than happily pay a regular amount to Matt with the express purpose of updating NS2 so that it continues to work with each new iOS. My first thought was I would be happy to buy the app over and over again every year at $20 if I knew it would keep on working with each new iteration of iOS. But I could also be willing to pay more than that.
My guess is, that it would be hard for Matt to know how many supporters he might get and therefore how much he would need to ask from each of them, in order to make it a viable option for him to spend the appropriate amount of time on the app. His life and sanity should come first!
Perhaps we could set up a survey on this forum with a few questions, asking how much people would be prepared to pay and how often, and what they would expect/ask for that - then he could get a good idea of how much support there is and potentially how much money there is available.
I wouldn't be so keen on subscription through Apple, unless I knew that all my money was going to Matt, and not half of it to Apple! I'd be happier with a Patreon/kickstarter type project, and I don't care if other people gain updates for free because of my contributions. Considering my interest is mostly in sustainability updates, I would be happy to continue paying something, rather than just make a one-off donation.
It could be useful to find out how much people would be willing to pay for various options, and how many of them there are. Who has the forum know-how to create some kind of survey? :-)
Nanostudio 2 must live!!
And many best wishes to Matt @Blip Interactive , whom I have never met, but whose software has brought so much joy into my life. Thank you, Matt, and stay well!
For me obvious method is:
Count how many hours of coding (including post-release patches and those x1,2 coefficient for “unforeseen consequences”) you need to implement a major feature (e.g. audio tracks)
Set price for your working hour
Set feature price in kickstarter as price and hours multiplied
Two thoughts:
1) I am no fan of the outrageous cut Apple takes. But to dismiss the subscription idea on moral grounds just because you don’t want to pay Apple seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face. It seems there are distinct financial benefits to it for the developer. When the money is secondary to the quality of the product, which certainly seems to be the case here, the inherent evil of it is mitigated.
2) Is there enough support out there for NS to survive and grow into the super DAW it can be? I don’t know. Something like what @jack_wabba suggested seems like a good way to find out. The Kickstarter part would be the survey @bobheads talks about. It’s where we all put our money where our mouths are. Since we want @Blip Interactive to be coding, not filling out forms, is there someone here with the know-how willing to set up and market the Kickstarter for him?
just to clarify - my post might have sounded more anti-apple than I intended. I love their products, but I also would like fairer treatment from them to freelance developers. I am certainly very happy to pay through apple apps subscription, if that works best for Matt. But if there are other ways for Matt to get a higher percentage of the money we all want to pay him, that would be my preference. :-) @Blip Interactive - people want to send you money!
Hey Matt, no worries. Just glad to have an update. Also, I would suggest you put audio tracks as a paid DLC, if the financials just aren’t there. I’d pay for them.
I’m sorry this app isn’t selling as well as its predecessor. It’s amazing. However, lack of audio tracks keeps me going back to GarageBand for guitar recording. That’s just where I’m at with it. I find myself not using NS2 nearly as much as I’d like to because of that.
So, while I understand the “why” of the situation, I’d still be interested in finding how to make it work.
Making a paid desktop version isn’t a bad idea, but I also think paid updates could help you within the Apple eco-system.
One thing I forgot: PLEASE DON’T do subscriptions. I hate those. It would ruin the whole app for me. I don’t mind paying for updates, or add-ons, but to pay monthly for an app I already paid for is beyond irritating. That’s just my thinking. Now, if you have a way to perhaps make a deal with Loopmasters to release some Rawcutz (as well as their other content makers’) sample packs through your app and clean a commission off the top, I think you could add to your bottom line that way, as well.
Well, I will add some criticism. I'll try to make it as reasonable as I can and.
I am not an experienced composer/producer, but I'm an enterprise developer myself, therefore I'll try to analyze NS2 not only as a DAW, but also as a product. I hope it will be somehow useful for it's future. At least I payed for it, so I think I can share my opinion.
A small preamble
I've bought NS2 about 1.5 years ago. I've looked for a DAW which will help me to study musical composition and production basics. Though I love different genres of music, I've decided to concentrate on classical-style composition and harmony, because it's the most well-known way to learn basic concepts.
I also love working out of home, so I've decided that iPad-based environment will be a comfortable but relatively inexpensive way to start.
iOS DAWs
All products on any market have advantages and drawbacks. But iOS DAWs are really very strange. They are trying to do multiple things and miss the most basic features.
The two main player looks poor.
Steinberg(!) Cubasis 3 still haven't got tempo/time signature track (in my classical-oriented opinion the basics of musical expression).
Auria Pro looks abandoned and buggy.
Also you can't try most of DAWs without buying. So you have to read all forum threads to find out, what kind of product are you buying.
NanoStudio 2
Back there I decided should I buy a solid-like DAW, or build a dawless monster from Auidiobus, AUM and Xequence. Then I saw NanoStudio 2.
I didn't know anything about NanoStudio 1, and all I saw is a MIDI-only DAW with incredible UI/UX, with tempo tracks and very passionate developer. Because only a passionate developer can build such a polished UX.
One of the best software desin rule I've ever heard is an old UNIX rule:
Do one thing and do it well
So I didn't mind the lack of audio tracks in NS2. I bought it because I thought it's a really good MIDI-only DAW instrument swith AU integtration, nice built-in synth, absolutely awesome sampler, tempo track and very convenient MIDI editing/automation UX. It looked a way better than any other iPad DAW.
But in first hours after purchasing I understood that NS2 is not the DAW I imagined. It is very, extremely good at UX, but it doesn't do one simple thing: it doesn't edit MIDI
iOS market is full of very cool AU instruments and synths. And the most straight and well-known way to modulate some parameters inside the instrument is MIDI CC.
But NS2 doesn't allow you to edit MIDI CC straightforward. It can't record your hardware sustain pedal, instead of just editing appropriate CC it tries to modify note length (a dirty hack which still doesn't allow to "just record MIDI piano piece from keyboard" and leads to glitches).
Also if instrument doesn't export it's parameters via AU — they become completely inaccessible from NS2. It's very uncomfortable, there are a couple instruments (Jubal Flute, Shire Whistle) which don't export some of expression parameters via AU but have all MIDI CC binding options.
What's now
In the last 1.5 years some new products became more polished and usable.
Drambo's modular synth is much more flexible than NS2 synth. With AU compatibility it became very cool experimental laboratory, which work like old fashioned trackers but with more friendly UI.
Helium AU sequencer allows to edit all MIDI CC parameters. And has many interesting features like multitake live recording. (And maybe it will support tempo change someday, who knows)
Audio Evolution Mobile Studio is developed very fast. It can handle audio and MIDI editing already. And tempo change will be ported from Android version soon.
Yes this apps are not so comfortable, they have UX/UI issues. Yes they are not polished yet and there are some things that should be done. Yes it isn't an all-in-one thing still.
But this apps do the job.
Summary
In my opinion NS2 could be a very nice DAW.
It's UI is flawless: smooth editing, convenient mixing and automation, flexible sampling and FX chaining.
Personally I'd like to buy IAP with audio tracks support. (God I'd like to buy even a separate program for audio mixing and mastering only. I've just bought AEM for this purpose). Maybe I'd like to buy this IAP sound sets though I prefer AU instruments.
But I don't understand why do I need audio tracks or fancy sound sets in a DAW which (being a MIDI-only DAW) still fails in basic MIDI editing
So maybe it's not necessary to spend resources and add large and expensive features like audio tracks and maybe it's better to polish existing features instead?
Hey Matt (and to all others here),
i just wanted to give my comment because i can imagine how hard the DAW business is today. I started to make music with computers and midi connected synths and drums in early 80s. When Propellerheads released their Reason 1.0 in 2000, i started to limit myself to the virtual rack philosophy, as music making was (and still is) only a hobby. I was glad to have everything in the box and that i could sell or give away my gear because i am a minimalist. I played around with pretty much every DAW on Mac and iOS.
And, at that time, Nanostudio 1 saved my life (and gave me a creativity boost) when i had to stay a long time in hospital. Could not say how thankful i was to have an iPod touch and a Akai Synthstation 25 with me :-)
But today..... we have not only an oversupply of VSTs, DAWs and real Gear, it is a real overKILL! For me, the endless possibilities destroy my creativity. So today i have myself limited to Reason 10 (lite - still an overkill, if you look at what Europa and Thor can dol!!!). For me it is (meanwhile) hard to work with a small touchscreen, so my preferred system, i hate to say it but its the truth, is a Computer/Laptop, a Mouse and a Controller Keyboard.
As i more and more miss the real Gear from the past a bit and tired of looking into a computer screen, i save money for an Arturia Keystep Pro and a Nektar P1, to have a more „DAWless” and more inspiring workspace for jamming. And in this configuration i guess, i will re-activate NS2 (just for the Obsidian) as a kind of dedicated hardware synth.
So, standalone Obsidian or as a AUv3 (with full screen GUI and without on-screen keyboard) would be something i would spend extra money for... ;-)
OK, i think this post will not help much, but it reflects my feels about all this a bit.
There are currently over 4 whole pages of it since the 23rd.
I saw this before with the Kymatica forum, and a few days later the forum was shut down - because he couldn't keep up and delete/manage the crazy amount of spam etc..
Didn’t realize this conversation was going on. I would easily join a subscription for NS2 and highly recommend it to everyone I know. As it stands NS2 is the best workstation app, begging to be the best DAW on iOS. Whatever you’d need to do to make it financially viable, I’d be around to support.
but it doesn't do one simple thing: it doesn't edit MIDI
Not sure what you mean by that. One of the very best things about NS2 for me is the extreme ease and accuracy of midi editing. I myself don’t like the grab and drag method of note editing. I always end up inadvertently moving notes left/right when I intended up/down and vice versa. In NS2 I always use the arrows on left and bottom to quickly do only what intend. One particularly convenient feature is the move by octave arrow. I find myself using that a great deal. Another nice feature is to edit velocities of only the notes selected. Most useful here in editing drum tracks. Want to scale velocities of just the tom’s in a track? Just drag over the tom pitches and draw/scale/modify them without touching the other drums.
As for cc’s: I use a midi wind controller and it records cc2, cc1, and pitch bend in real time. The trick is in how this was implemented. You need to map the cc’s to the predefined internal controllers. These include x, y, pitch bend and 8 knobs. I map cc2 to the y controller and cc1 to x, and they are recorded under those names in the track along with notes. These can then be edited the same way velocities can. You can effectively do midi compression and expansion on them. The real power then comes from the ability to the use those internal controls in Obsidian to modulate pretty much everything to any degree. E.g I might use the y controller (mapped to cc2) to control the global amplitude at 100%, the filter 1 cutoff at 20%, and one of the fm operators at 3%. Insane levels of real time control of the sound. One complaint is that the midi cc recording resolution is not quite as fine as I need it to be with a wind controller - but I am an extreme minority.
I don’t know of any other iOS daws that allow that degree of midi editing control.
There are currently over 4 whole pages of it since the 23rd.
I saw this before with the Kymatica forum, and a few days later the forum was shut down - because he couldn't keep up and delete/manage the crazy amount of spam etc..
There are currently over 4 whole pages of it since the 23rd.
I saw this before with the Kymatica forum, and a few days later the forum was shut down - because he couldn't keep up and delete/manage the crazy amount of spam etc..
but it doesn't do one simple thing: it doesn't edit MIDI
Not sure what you mean by that. One of the very best things about NS2 for me is the extreme ease and accuracy of midi editing. I myself don’t like the grab and drag method of note editing. I always end up inadvertently moving notes left/right when I intended up/down and vice versa. In NS2 I always use the arrows on left and bottom to quickly do only what intend. One particularly convenient feature is the move by octave arrow. I find myself using that a great deal. Another nice feature is to edit velocities of only the notes selected. Most useful here in editing drum tracks. Want to scale velocities of just the tom’s in a track? Just drag over the tom pitches and draw/scale/modify them without touching the other drums.
As for cc’s: I use a midi wind controller and it records cc2, cc1, and pitch bend in real time. The trick is in how this was implemented. You need to map the cc’s to the predefined internal controllers. These include x, y, pitch bend and 8 knobs. I map cc2 to the y controller and cc1 to x, and they are recorded under those names in the track along with notes. These can then be edited the same way velocities can. You can effectively do midi compression and expansion on them. The real power then comes from the ability to the use those internal controls in Obsidian to modulate pretty much everything to any degree. E.g I might use the y controller (mapped to cc2) to control the global amplitude at 100%, the filter 1 cutoff at 20%, and one of the fm operators at 3%. Insane levels of real time control of the sound. One complaint is that the midi cc recording resolution is not quite as fine as I need it to be with a wind controller - but I am an extreme minority.
I don’t know of any other iOS daws that allow that degree of midi editing control.
I agree. I was really surprised with that NS2 “doesn’t edit midi” comment.
I don’t “jam” & I rarely ever record live playing. Everything I produce is done through inputting and editing midi within NS2s interface.
And man - isn’t NS2 feature rich and easy to use in this respect 👌👍😊
but it doesn't do one simple thing: it doesn't edit MIDI
Not sure what you mean by that. One of the very best things about NS2 for me is the extreme ease and accuracy of midi editing. I myself don’t like the grab and drag method of note editing. I always end up inadvertently moving notes left/right when I intended up/down and vice versa. In NS2 I always use the arrows on left and bottom to quickly do only what intend. One particularly convenient feature is the move by octave arrow. I find myself using that a great deal. Another nice feature is to edit velocities of only the notes selected. Most useful here in editing drum tracks. Want to scale velocities of just the tom’s in a track? Just drag over the tom pitches and draw/scale/modify them without touching the other drums.
As for cc’s: I use a midi wind controller and it records cc2, cc1, and pitch bend in real time. The trick is in how this was implemented. You need to map the cc’s to the predefined internal controllers. These include x, y, pitch bend and 8 knobs. I map cc2 to the y controller and cc1 to x, and they are recorded under those names in the track along with notes. These can then be edited the same way velocities can. You can effectively do midi compression and expansion on them. The real power then comes from the ability to the use those internal controls in Obsidian to modulate pretty much everything to any degree. E.g I might use the y controller (mapped to cc2) to control the global amplitude at 100%, the filter 1 cutoff at 20%, and one of the fm operators at 3%. Insane levels of real time control of the sound. One complaint is that the midi cc recording resolution is not quite as fine as I need it to be with a wind controller - but I am an extreme minority.
I don’t know of any other iOS daws that allow that degree of midi editing control.
I agree. I was really surprised with that NS2 “doesn’t edit midi” comment.
I don’t “jam” & I rarely ever record live playing. Everything I produce is done through inputting and editing midi within NS2s interface.
And man - isn’t NS2 feature rich and easy to use in this respect 👌👍😊
but it doesn't do one simple thing: it doesn't edit MIDI
Not sure what you mean by that. One of the very best things about NS2 for me is the extreme ease and accuracy of midi editing. I myself don’t like the grab and drag method of note editing. I always end up inadvertently moving notes left/right when I intended up/down and vice versa. In NS2 I always use the arrows on left and bottom to quickly do only what intend. One particularly convenient feature is the move by octave arrow. I find myself using that a great deal. Another nice feature is to edit velocities of only the notes selected. Most useful here in editing drum tracks. Want to scale velocities of just the tom’s in a track? Just drag over the tom pitches and draw/scale/modify them without touching the other drums.
As for cc’s: I use a midi wind controller and it records cc2, cc1, and pitch bend in real time. The trick is in how this was implemented. You need to map the cc’s to the predefined internal controllers. These include x, y, pitch bend and 8 knobs. I map cc2 to the y controller and cc1 to x, and they are recorded under those names in the track along with notes. These can then be edited the same way velocities can. You can effectively do midi compression and expansion on them. The real power then comes from the ability to the use those internal controls in Obsidian to modulate pretty much everything to any degree. E.g I might use the y controller (mapped to cc2) to control the global amplitude at 100%, the filter 1 cutoff at 20%, and one of the fm operators at 3%. Insane levels of real time control of the sound. One complaint is that the midi cc recording resolution is not quite as fine as I need it to be with a wind controller - but I am an extreme minority.
I don’t know of any other iOS daws that allow that degree of midi editing control.
Oh I understand what do you mean, but I supposed different thing.
First of all I will agree with you that NS2 has extremely good UX. I really love how comfortable editing is.
My case was about direct editing midi packages CC channel data from piano roll (and then mapping this automation to knobs of your hardware controller).
You've described CC editing flow via 8 virtual NS2 knobs an XY pad, but what's behind this process?
This knobs don't edit MIDI packages which NS2 send to external AU instruments. They are assigned to special AU parameters of this instrument instead.
So your (current NS2) flow looks like:
(Controller) --MIDI CC2--> (NS2 virtual Knob) -- AU parameter --> (AU instrument)
What flow I mean by fair "midi editing":
(Controller) --> MIDI CC2 --> (NS2) -- MIDI CC2 --> (AU instrument)
Why?
As I know this parameters should be explicitly exposed by the external instrument. But not every good app really exposes all their parameters in AU. It's not a default "golden rule" for developers. But every app maps their tweak-able parameters to input midi CC (or even have configurable mappings).
For example:
Jubal Flute or Shire Whistle (really awesome folk flutes) can map vibrato on midi CC2 but don't expose "vibrato" as AU parameter. It means that you can't map it on your virtual NS2 knob, so you can't automate it or map to your controller via NS2. If you open this instrument in standalone mode you will be able to play with vibrato, but in NS2 you won't.
Ravenscroft 275. Very good sounding piano, best on iOS (on my taste of course). But it doesn't expose sustain pedal as AU parameter. It waits for MIDI CC64. It means that you won't be able to record even "Fur Elise" into NS2 piano roll and play it via this instrument.
There were some bugs about sustain pedal on this forum.
And how they were "finally solved"?
If you tap sustain pedal connected to you keyboard, NS2 will extend playing notes "emulating" sustain effect.
But what will happen if you hold sustain pedal and hit one key several times?
Sustain effect will not accumulate. Notes in piano roll will be overlapped and it may cause AU instrument panic.
That's what I mean. NS2 is an extremely convenient tool for "midi editing". Ant probably the best on iOS. But under the hood it doesn't allow you to truly edit MIDI signal. A very funny pun.
There are currently over 4 whole pages of it since the 23rd.
It’s a constant battle since a couple weeks ago. Every time I check, there’s a couple pages of it but we do this on our spare time, so we do as much as we can. I hope it lets off after a while because this is a bit much.
There are currently over 4 whole pages of it since the 23rd.
It’s a constant battle since a couple weeks ago. Every time I check, there’s a couple pages of it but we do this on our spare time, so we do as much as we can. I hope it lets off after a while because this is a bit much.
There are currently over 4 whole pages of it since the 23rd.
It’s a constant battle since a couple weeks ago. Every time I check, there’s a couple pages of it but we do this on our spare time, so we do as much as we can. I hope it lets off after a while because this is a bit much.
At least they are happy they registered…
Yes, we have the happiest bots! To be honest, I’m just dreading the day I finally accidentally ban an actual person because there were two dozen spam accounts and I clicked the wrong one 😬
Been working too much but decided to drop by this morning and everything that has been said previously in this thread is true. IAP AUDIO TRACKS at 30 or more dollars i’m there, IAP midi effects automation at X amount just take my money$$$
I won’t subscribe to anything annually not Reason Plus, not any loop cloud crap, not even a magazine but NS2 would make me cave in and just for Obsidian alone
Matt you have users and fans that love what Blip Interactive does and we get it
We feel lucky to use NS2 because it works so well and in our opinion its the best music creation app on ios
If you need more filthy lucre just give us a shout out and i’m not wealthy in any way but I’d rather pay more to get features we all want and need sooner than later because contrary to what the stones said, time is never on our side.
And to all the people any where complaining about NS2 is crippled because of x or y and the developer hasn’t delivered x or y put your money where your mouth is or buy Reason 12, their user base will give you a master class in the art of bitching over nothing but misery loves certain companies i guess.
@sirmcp said:
or buy Reason 12, their user base will give you a master class in the art of bitching over nothing but misery loves certain companies i guess.
Ouch, I used to be one of those, although I bitched about why I wouldn’t get Reason. Then they fixed everything I had complained about and I had no reason to not buy it anymore. After a while I had to admit that I’m just not that into Reason. 💀😂
Don’t know if Matt’s reading, but seems Michael have done some really interesting thing with his Loopy Pro. Subscription-not subscription.
This is the model many users will accept, I think.
Comments
First of all, I would to thank Matt for this latest update. NanoStudio2 has become my favorite music creation tool out of all the ones I have tried, on iOS, on the computer and among hardware groove boxes. I am a big fan of the app and so it's sad to know that current sales are putting future development in jeopardy.
I have not done the research to know what kind of numbers competitive DAWs are generating in terms of revenue on iOS these days. However, I think NanoStudio might be at a disadvantage compared to the competition because of the lack of key features like audio tracks. For some people, this is simply a showstopper. It's been a topic of discussion on this forum and others, and new users are likely to take that into consideration when investing in a DAW. Personally, it's not a huge deal but when I work in other apps which do have audio tracks (BeatMaker3, for example), I so wish that NanoStudio 2 had the same. There are workarounds, but they are just that...
Not sure if Matt has totally abandoned the idea of developing audio tracks. They were advertised as a "coming soon" feature upon release. I understand that things might have changed. However, if I were him, I would run the numbers and see if it makes economic sense to continue development and offer audio tracks as an IAP. I would guess it would be an instant buy for 70-80% if not more of current NanoStudio owners. It won't make him rich but it's not a total waste of time either. Especially because with audio tracks, NanoStudio would stand as a pretty complete solution for music makers on iOS which for me would be far superior to anything currently out there. I get that after the initial excitement about the platform, things might have slowed down. But personally I still believe in its long term potential and with the convergence of iOS and computer OS, there is a real opportunity. NanoStudio is simply too good to be abandoned.
@Blip Interactive thanks for update,will made life easier;) didn’t tried it yet as I’m busy and generally didn’t touch music for couple of months:/ anyway I hope you will find way as I’m ready to support you as well. I’m not fan of subscriptions but could definitely live with it knowing ns2 will stay compatible with future devices plus occasionally got some updates;) btw. I’ll mention it again
I’ll pay lot for wavetable packs if you could drop some same way as sample packs perhaps;;)
Just don’t be shy;) there is whole bunch of people who would chip in one way or the other.
Hi Mat and thank you for your update! I hope you (and all the other amazing people here at the forum) are staying safe and well.
You have a loyal fan base Mat, I hope you feel that. You have always had a loyal fan base!
Many of us are willing to pay you money without any sort of commitment from your side apart from updates now and then (nothing fancy, bug fixes and in time adding some new features). For myself a yearly update is enough.
I totally understand that it takes time to develop an app but NS2 is great and I'm not the only one who thinks so. I hope you feel that as well.
I understand that it might feel "weird" (not finding a better word) to have us pay you on Patreon/Paypal/subscription so that you can continue to work on NS2 but for many of us it is worth it. By enabling you to develop the app we are also helping ourselves.
Please let us help ourselves by giving us the option to help you. NS2 is awesome, NS2 is the best DAW on iOS and if available on MacOS, well that would be outstanding (not a feature request, just a fact...).
I would be very happy if you could share a PayPal account where we can put some money in the meantime while you are thinking about ways drive the development further.
If it's OK with Apple you could add that link in the app as well otherwise a subscription without anything extra would be OK. I think that more people than you might think will be positive about giving you some extra money just by writing a small note describing the situation (the About Us page already have 90% of the content needed).
I think Im not the only one already doing this type of "charity"/investment already and that is for less useful things than NS2.
You have nothing to loose on this.
I’m A bit late for the party, but…
Matt, please email me, when you launch your kickstarter campaign. I would gladly send my 100 $
I would just like to add my voice to the crowd of those who would be more than happy to throw more money at Matt. I paid just $20 for NS2 two years ago, and that just doesn't seem fair to him, given how much joy and fun I have had with it.
I don't have any pressing personal need for additional features (eg audio), but I would happily pay for them as in-app purchases. (In fact my preferred additional feature would be automation of external plugins (eg fabfilter) before audio tracks - but I don't expect those as free updates! But they would be great
)
My biggest fear would be that NS2 stopped working after one of Apple's ever more unavoidable iOS updates. I hate that I am forced to update my OS (and potentially lose functionality of older apps) by their increasingly compulsory iOS updates. I used to avoid the updates as long as possible but it's getting more and more impractical and difficult to do that.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand! I would more than happily pay a regular amount to Matt with the express purpose of updating NS2 so that it continues to work with each new iOS. My first thought was I would be happy to buy the app over and over again every year at $20 if I knew it would keep on working with each new iteration of iOS. But I could also be willing to pay more than that.
My guess is, that it would be hard for Matt to know how many supporters he might get and therefore how much he would need to ask from each of them, in order to make it a viable option for him to spend the appropriate amount of time on the app. His life and sanity should come first!
Perhaps we could set up a survey on this forum with a few questions, asking how much people would be prepared to pay and how often, and what they would expect/ask for that - then he could get a good idea of how much support there is and potentially how much money there is available.
I wouldn't be so keen on subscription through Apple, unless I knew that all my money was going to Matt, and not half of it to Apple!
I'd be happier with a Patreon/kickstarter type project, and I don't care if other people gain updates for free because of my contributions. Considering my interest is mostly in sustainability updates, I would be happy to continue paying something, rather than just make a one-off donation.
It could be useful to find out how much people would be willing to pay for various options, and how many of them there are. Who has the forum know-how to create some kind of survey? :-)
Nanostudio 2 must live!!
And many best wishes to Matt @Blip Interactive , whom I have never met, but whose software has brought so much joy into my life. Thank you, Matt, and stay well!
For me obvious method is:
Count how many hours of coding (including post-release patches and those x1,2 coefficient for “unforeseen consequences”) you need to implement a major feature (e.g. audio tracks)
Set price for your working hour
Set feature price in kickstarter as price and hours multiplied
Two thoughts:
1) I am no fan of the outrageous cut Apple takes. But to dismiss the subscription idea on moral grounds just because you don’t want to pay Apple seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face. It seems there are distinct financial benefits to it for the developer. When the money is secondary to the quality of the product, which certainly seems to be the case here, the inherent evil of it is mitigated.
2) Is there enough support out there for NS to survive and grow into the super DAW it can be? I don’t know. Something like what @jack_wabba suggested seems like a good way to find out. The Kickstarter part would be the survey @bobheads talks about. It’s where we all put our money where our mouths are. Since we want @Blip Interactive to be coding, not filling out forms, is there someone here with the know-how willing to set up and market the Kickstarter for him?
just to clarify - my post might have sounded more anti-apple than I intended. I love their products, but I also would like fairer treatment from them to freelance developers. I am certainly very happy to pay through apple apps subscription, if that works best for Matt. But if there are other ways for Matt to get a higher percentage of the money we all want to pay him, that would be my preference. :-)
@Blip Interactive - people want to send you money!
That pretty much sums up this entire thread
@Blip Interactive I confirm. I can buy sound packs but then that's about it. No way to support you, even if I really want to.
Hey Matt, no worries. Just glad to have an update. Also, I would suggest you put audio tracks as a paid DLC, if the financials just aren’t there. I’d pay for them.
I’m sorry this app isn’t selling as well as its predecessor. It’s amazing. However, lack of audio tracks keeps me going back to GarageBand for guitar recording. That’s just where I’m at with it. I find myself not using NS2 nearly as much as I’d like to because of that.
So, while I understand the “why” of the situation, I’d still be interested in finding how to make it work.
Making a paid desktop version isn’t a bad idea, but I also think paid updates could help you within the Apple eco-system.
One thing I forgot: PLEASE DON’T do subscriptions. I hate those. It would ruin the whole app for me. I don’t mind paying for updates, or add-ons, but to pay monthly for an app I already paid for is beyond irritating. That’s just my thinking. Now, if you have a way to perhaps make a deal with Loopmasters to release some Rawcutz (as well as their other content makers’) sample packs through your app and clean a commission off the top, I think you could add to your bottom line that way, as well.
Well, I will add some criticism. I'll try to make it as reasonable as I can and.
I am not an experienced composer/producer, but I'm an enterprise developer myself, therefore I'll try to analyze NS2 not only as a DAW, but also as a product. I hope it will be somehow useful for it's future. At least I payed for it, so I think I can share my opinion.
A small preamble
I've bought NS2 about 1.5 years ago. I've looked for a DAW which will help me to study musical composition and production basics. Though I love different genres of music, I've decided to concentrate on classical-style composition and harmony, because it's the most well-known way to learn basic concepts.
I also love working out of home, so I've decided that iPad-based environment will be a comfortable but relatively inexpensive way to start.
iOS DAWs
All products on any market have advantages and drawbacks. But iOS DAWs are really very strange. They are trying to do multiple things and miss the most basic features.
The two main player looks poor.
Also you can't try most of DAWs without buying. So you have to read all forum threads to find out, what kind of product are you buying.
NanoStudio 2
Back there I decided should I buy a solid-like DAW, or build a dawless monster from Auidiobus, AUM and Xequence. Then I saw NanoStudio 2.
I didn't know anything about NanoStudio 1, and all I saw is a MIDI-only DAW with incredible UI/UX, with tempo tracks and very passionate developer. Because only a passionate developer can build such a polished UX.
One of the best software desin rule I've ever heard is an old UNIX rule:
So I didn't mind the lack of audio tracks in NS2. I bought it because I thought it's a really good MIDI-only DAW instrument swith AU integtration, nice built-in synth, absolutely awesome sampler, tempo track and very convenient MIDI editing/automation UX. It looked a way better than any other iPad DAW.
But in first hours after purchasing I understood that NS2 is not the DAW I imagined. It is very, extremely good at UX, but it doesn't do one simple thing: it doesn't edit MIDI
iOS market is full of very cool AU instruments and synths. And the most straight and well-known way to modulate some parameters inside the instrument is MIDI CC.
But NS2 doesn't allow you to edit MIDI CC straightforward. It can't record your hardware sustain pedal, instead of just editing appropriate CC it tries to modify note length (a dirty hack which still doesn't allow to "just record MIDI piano piece from keyboard" and leads to glitches).
Also if instrument doesn't export it's parameters via AU — they become completely inaccessible from NS2. It's very uncomfortable, there are a couple instruments (Jubal Flute, Shire Whistle) which don't export some of expression parameters via AU but have all MIDI CC binding options.
What's now
In the last 1.5 years some new products became more polished and usable.
Yes this apps are not so comfortable, they have UX/UI issues. Yes they are not polished yet and there are some things that should be done. Yes it isn't an all-in-one thing still.
But this apps do the job.
Summary
In my opinion NS2 could be a very nice DAW.
It's UI is flawless: smooth editing, convenient mixing and automation, flexible sampling and FX chaining.
Personally I'd like to buy IAP with audio tracks support. (God I'd like to buy even a separate program for audio mixing and mastering only. I've just bought AEM for this purpose). Maybe I'd like to buy this IAP sound sets though I prefer AU instruments.
But I don't understand why do I need audio tracks or fancy sound sets in a DAW which (being a MIDI-only DAW) still fails in basic MIDI editing
So maybe it's not necessary to spend resources and add large and expensive features like audio tracks and maybe it's better to polish existing features instead?
Hey Matt (and to all others here),
i just wanted to give my comment because i can imagine how hard the DAW business is today. I started to make music with computers and midi connected synths and drums in early 80s. When Propellerheads released their Reason 1.0 in 2000, i started to limit myself to the virtual rack philosophy, as music making was (and still is) only a hobby. I was glad to have everything in the box and that i could sell or give away my gear because i am a minimalist. I played around with pretty much every DAW on Mac and iOS.
And, at that time, Nanostudio 1 saved my life (and gave me a creativity boost) when i had to stay a long time in hospital. Could not say how thankful i was to have an iPod touch and a Akai Synthstation 25 with me :-)
But today..... we have not only an oversupply of VSTs, DAWs and real Gear, it is a real overKILL! For me, the endless possibilities destroy my creativity. So today i have myself limited to Reason 10 (lite - still an overkill, if you look at what Europa and Thor can dol!!!). For me it is (meanwhile) hard to work with a small touchscreen, so my preferred system, i hate to say it but its the truth, is a Computer/Laptop, a Mouse and a Controller Keyboard.
As i more and more miss the real Gear from the past a bit and tired of looking into a computer screen, i save money for an Arturia Keystep Pro and a Nektar P1, to have a more „DAWless” and more inspiring workspace for jamming. And in this configuration i guess, i will re-activate NS2 (just for the Obsidian) as a kind of dedicated hardware synth.
So, standalone Obsidian or as a AUv3 (with full screen GUI and without on-screen keyboard) would be something i would spend extra money for... ;-)
OK, i think this post will not help much, but it reflects my feels about all this a bit.
Hey @Blip Interactive , @Will , @Stiksi - or any other moderator.
Can you look into the spam?
There are currently over 4 whole pages of it since the 23rd.
I saw this before with the Kymatica forum, and a few days later the forum was shut down - because he couldn't keep up and delete/manage the crazy amount of spam etc..
Not starting a new thread for this!
Cheers.. @whomever..
King
For anyone who doesn't know Kymatica:
Kymatica are the developer(s) for AUM, Audioshare, AUFX's, Sector and more.
Bless
King
Didn’t realize this conversation was going on. I would easily join a subscription for NS2 and highly recommend it to everyone I know. As it stands NS2 is the best workstation app, begging to be the best DAW on iOS. Whatever you’d need to do to make it financially viable, I’d be around to support.
but it doesn't do one simple thing: it doesn't edit MIDI
Not sure what you mean by that. One of the very best things about NS2 for me is the extreme ease and accuracy of midi editing. I myself don’t like the grab and drag method of note editing. I always end up inadvertently moving notes left/right when I intended up/down and vice versa. In NS2 I always use the arrows on left and bottom to quickly do only what intend. One particularly convenient feature is the move by octave arrow. I find myself using that a great deal. Another nice feature is to edit velocities of only the notes selected. Most useful here in editing drum tracks. Want to scale velocities of just the tom’s in a track? Just drag over the tom pitches and draw/scale/modify them without touching the other drums.
As for cc’s: I use a midi wind controller and it records cc2, cc1, and pitch bend in real time. The trick is in how this was implemented. You need to map the cc’s to the predefined internal controllers. These include x, y, pitch bend and 8 knobs. I map cc2 to the y controller and cc1 to x, and they are recorded under those names in the track along with notes. These can then be edited the same way velocities can. You can effectively do midi compression and expansion on them. The real power then comes from the ability to the use those internal controls in Obsidian to modulate pretty much everything to any degree. E.g I might use the y controller (mapped to cc2) to control the global amplitude at 100%, the filter 1 cutoff at 20%, and one of the fm operators at 3%. Insane levels of real time control of the sound. One complaint is that the midi cc recording resolution is not quite as fine as I need it to be with a wind controller - but I am an extreme minority.
I don’t know of any other iOS daws that allow that degree of midi editing control.
Done 👍🏼
Lovely Stuff!
King
I agree. I was really surprised with that NS2 “doesn’t edit midi” comment.
I don’t “jam” & I rarely ever record live playing. Everything I produce is done through inputting and editing midi within NS2s interface.
And man - isn’t NS2 feature rich and easy to use in this respect 👌👍😊
Best on iOS IMHO! 😎👍🏼
Oh I understand what do you mean, but I supposed different thing.
First of all I will agree with you that NS2 has extremely good UX. I really love how comfortable editing is.
My case was about direct editing midi packages CC channel data from piano roll (and then mapping this automation to knobs of your hardware controller).
You've described CC editing flow via 8 virtual NS2 knobs an XY pad, but what's behind this process?
This knobs don't edit MIDI packages which NS2 send to external AU instruments. They are assigned to special AU parameters of this instrument instead.
So your (current NS2) flow looks like:
(Controller) --MIDI CC2--> (NS2 virtual Knob) -- AU parameter --> (AU instrument)
What flow I mean by fair "midi editing":
(Controller) --> MIDI CC2 --> (NS2) -- MIDI CC2 --> (AU instrument)
Why?
As I know this parameters should be explicitly exposed by the external instrument. But not every good app really exposes all their parameters in AU. It's not a default "golden rule" for developers. But every app maps their tweak-able parameters to input midi CC (or even have configurable mappings).
For example:
There were some bugs about sustain pedal on this forum.
And how they were "finally solved"?
If you tap sustain pedal connected to you keyboard, NS2 will extend playing notes "emulating" sustain effect.
But what will happen if you hold sustain pedal and hit one key several times?
Sustain effect will not accumulate. Notes in piano roll will be overlapped and it may cause AU instrument panic.
That's what I mean. NS2 is an extremely convenient tool for "midi editing". Ant probably the best on iOS. But under the hood it doesn't allow you to truly edit MIDI signal. A very funny pun.
It’s a constant battle since a couple weeks ago. Every time I check, there’s a couple pages of it but we do this on our spare time, so we do as much as we can. I hope it lets off after a while because this is a bit much.
So, @Blip Interactive , whadda you say?
At least they are happy they registered…
Yes, we have the happiest bots! To be honest, I’m just dreading the day I finally accidentally ban an actual person because there were two dozen spam accounts and I clicked the wrong one 😬
Been working too much but decided to drop by this morning and everything that has been said previously in this thread is true. IAP AUDIO TRACKS at 30 or more dollars i’m there, IAP midi effects automation at X amount just take my money$$$
I won’t subscribe to anything annually not Reason Plus, not any loop cloud crap, not even a magazine but NS2 would make me cave in and just for Obsidian alone
Matt you have users and fans that love what Blip Interactive does and we get it
We feel lucky to use NS2 because it works so well and in our opinion its the best music creation app on ios
If you need more filthy lucre just give us a shout out and i’m not wealthy in any way but I’d rather pay more to get features we all want and need sooner than later because contrary to what the stones said, time is never on our side.
And to all the people any where complaining about NS2 is crippled because of x or y and the developer hasn’t delivered x or y put your money where your mouth is or buy Reason 12, their user base will give you a master class in the art of bitching over nothing but misery loves certain companies i guess.
Ouch, I used to be one of those, although I bitched about why I wouldn’t get Reason. Then they fixed everything I had complained about and I had no reason to not buy it anymore. After a while I had to admit that I’m just not that into Reason. 💀😂
Don’t know if Matt’s reading, but seems Michael have done some really interesting thing with his Loopy Pro. Subscription-not subscription.
This is the model many users will accept, I think.