Thing is Matt, I would definitely pay a subscription for your hard work on NS2, and I'm normally against subscriptions for tool apps. But to me, NS2 is more than worth subscribing to. I did a remix of a famous 90s Dance Music artist's song...
i hate subscriptions for anything otger than Netflix or iCloud ..
I rather pay for app higher price, for example equivalent to 5 years of subscription and for every IAP too, but i simply need to have (completely irrational) subjective feeling of owning app, not just renting.
I need to be emotionally attached to app (or hw synth), to feel "it's mine, precious", like gollum :-), to be able to use it creatively..
I can't get any emotional attachment to something which is just "borrowed" for limited time..
@Blip Interactive I’d drop a hefty investment amount into NS2 just to keep it rolling. My investment is more in you than in features. I’d like you to be able to see your vision through. It makes me feel good knowing I funded such a killer product. I don’t need my name anywhere, just the satisfaction of knowing I kept something so great moving forward.
Personally I don’t care about audio tracks. If you want to do that and charge 30-40 bucks for it, go for it. Then all these people that say all I really need is audio tracks can put their money where their mouth is. I think they are all full of $h1t and are penny pinching Scrooge’s so I can see why you wouldn’t want to put that much effort into such a difficult undertaking for most of these people to complain about the cost and end up not buying it. As somebody said above, the people on AB are penny pinchers on, IMO, the dumbest things.
Instead, I think you could focus on IAP of new modules. Do that convolution reverb. Do a multiband compressor. Do an LFO module you can assign to parameters on modules. Make higher end versions of each of your components that might eat more CPU, but people know that when they use it because it’s the pro version of the plugin. Add some more processing modules in slate. Kind of go the drambo route where some modules just cost money...and that’s ok. Drambo doesn’t have audio tracks and people still use it
You are such a good product designer that if you came up with some creative modules, I think every owner of the app would buy them because they work seamlessly with the product.
I could imagine an audio tracks implementation that would perfectly satisfy me and I would pay quite a lot but the details of the feature I would want are probably unreasonable.
Re funding: I think the Wotja model makes sense for large complex applications. You pay a yearly subscription, and you get all the updates for that year (Jan 1 - Dec 31). If you stop paying, you can still use the features you've got, but you stop getting new features. That gives an incentive to the devs to keep building new features that their users want, while giving the users the option to stop paying and have a "locked in time" feature set. If a new feature appears that the user is interested in, you can renew your subscription and you get it plus any other new features for the rest of that year. Good for the user, and good for the dev who gets a recurring income each year. As a software dev myself, I think that's one of very few financially viable models for iOS development
Re community: many years ago I used to pay a considerable amount of money to large corporations for music gear. I put up with the feature set they provided, and they focused on building the features that most people would want so things tended to sound fairly generic.
In the iOS music community, it really feels like a community. There's good and bad people in any community, but that diversity is part of what makes it feel real. There's a bunch of outstanding devs building great tools like NS2, and a bunch of maniacs building weird and wonderful stuff that often sounds great to me but will only ever appeal to a tiny group of the small number of iOS music makers out there. There's people who use these tools to create things that amaze and inspire me, and others who feel an astonishing sense of entitlement for a one-off $5-10 investment. That's just the world at large. I get to send my money to a huge variety of small-time devs building stuff I find interesting, rather than a small number of huge corporates who don't care what I want.
The point of all this is that I feel like buying iOS music apps makes me part of a big community centred around a bunch of genius/lunatic app creators.
@Blip Interactive I'll happily kick in money to keep the NS2 community kicking along, and I'll do that for many other apps I use as well. Please find a way of taking money that you feel comfortable with, and let us show our gratitude. You make special stuff that brings joy to peoples' lives; please don't underestimate the value of that in today's world
Thanks Matt - can confirm working fine here on an M1 with ios14.
On the funding thing, NS2 is by far my most used app on any platform outside of things I use for work. I’ve waxed lyrical about it before on the AB forums, but I genuinely think NS2 is the best app I own - the attention to detail on how people interact on a touch interface is just art. So, obviously I’ve bought every single IAP just to support you, regardless of whether I think I would use them or not, but still I can’t pay you the amount of money I think the app is worth. I have the same ideological objections to subscriptions that @dendy does, however I would absolutely jump at the chance on NS2. Its value to me is many, many times what I’ve actually paid for it.
One thing I’ve seen popping up in apps recently is a tip jar IAP which could work here. I know personally, whenever I complete a track I get a rush of gratitude that would almost certainly lead me to tip every time. Sadly I’m probably not prodigious enough to fully fund it that way. But I can say with certainty, if you come up with any way for us who love your app to give you more money, I’m in. Kickstarter, Patreon, subscription, tips, whatever - I’m there.
Whatever you choose to do though, I hope it’s the best thing for you and your family. You owe us nothing, and you’ve given thousands of people many thousands of hours of pleasure. Thank you.
Great to see an update. Bite the bullet Matt, set up NS2 Pro subscription and see how it goes. I’m not that keen on subs but every so often I sub to Auxy and end up doing loads of music just because of the idea that I’ve wasted the subscription money otherwise. So roll on NS2 Pro and GIVE US EDEN AS AN IAP BECAUSE I STILL LOVE IT.
The programmer productivity tool #Resharper (I use this 100% of the time in my day job) has the subscription model others have described in this thread:
ie you pay a yearly subscription that gives you all updates for that year (bugfixes, new features, whatever).
If you choose to cancel the subscription, you then get to keep the software as-is of the moment the subscription is stopped - so you effectively own it as of that point with all of the updates that were included with the subscription up until that point - but of course you aren’t included for any further updates.
Restarting the subscription means paying a calculated one-off fee (equal to the equivalent subscription payments missed) to bring the software back up to the current latest release version, and then whatever the normal subscription cost to continue to receive the future updates for the period you have paid for.
I, personally, like this payment model and am happy to pay for #Resharper this way - it is a model I would more than happily pay for NS2 too, seeing as it is the epicentre of my music making efforts on iOS.
At least Waves has the same subscription model per plugin, and I distinctly remember bumping into it with other big name companies, so it’s not uncommon in desktop music software. But if Apple doesn’t offer it as an option, it’s a non-starter on mobile.
@dendy said:
i hate subscriptions for anything otger than Netflix or iCloud ..
I rather pay for app higher price, for example equivalent to 5 years of subscription and for every IAP too, but i simply need to have (completely irrational) subjective feeling of owning app, not just renting.
I need to be emotionally attached to app (or hw synth), to feel "it's mine, precious", like gollum :-), to be able to use it creatively..
I can't get any emotional attachment to something which is just "borrowed" for limited time..
I hear you but think of it this way……. “Precious” did not need maintenance and would never stop working because of an OS update. And imagine if “Precious” got upgraded regularly to make you love it even more. Are you emotionally attached to Netflix and iCloud? I doubt it. I only pay for them because I get something I want or need. I NEED ns2. More than I need to watch movies. And I would be sending my money to somebody who actually creates something, so that the rest of us can also create things. Win win win (Matt, us, and anybody who might enjoy our music). Not some corporate marketing bean counter. No offense to all you corporate marketing bean counters here
Peace.
weak force is actually very important, without it there would be no nuclear fusion inside stars, eg. no elements needed for life created, eg. universe would be cold dark lifeless place.
• NS2’s App Store price should be higher, since initial release.
• Yearly subscription is fine by me, and most would not object because it is by default optional. (Using #Resharper model wherein you can still use app w/o subscription).
• Instead of Kickstarter or similar (which require reaching a goal before pay out), can you just put a PayPal donate button on the web page? Matt then can set his own goals, and when a certain amount is achieved then a block of time is set aside for updates or new features.
I’m not looking a gift horse in the mouth - thanks for the update!
I also will not pressure for new features (also I generally don’t NEED them), but I hope instead you find a balance that let’s you continue with NS2 development at some point in the future as time/money and energy/enthusiasm allow. I agree with all the positive comments about NS2, and the happiness it allows me in my life. I hope you find the same.
Question, does this update allow us to have midi playhead control where a midi controllers 'play' button will enable 'play' in NS2? Also, can we get QWERTY keyboard support like Cubasis, spacebar support, keyboard shortcuts etc?
Question, does this update allow us to have midi playhead control where a midi controllers 'play' button will enable 'play' in NS2? Also, can we get QWERTY keyboard support like Cubasis, spacebar support, keyboard shortcuts etc?
I’m pretty sure the answer to this is “no.” This update syncs the start/stop of the NS2 playhead with other apps/hardware via MIDI, not the other way around, which I’m pretty sure would take a whole lot more time to code.
Question, does this update allow us to have midi playhead control where a midi controllers 'play' button will enable 'play' in NS2
unfortunately no.. this is just NS2->other app/hw sync
Althouth, theoretically, in case there is tsome link/start stop compatible app which is also capable to receive controller "play/stop" commands (midi mmc) - then this may work - you woukd be able to trigger play of this hypothetic app and then this app will trigger play in NS via Link.
Or maybe there is some HW midi controller directly supporting Link ?
Question, does this update allow us to have midi playhead control where a midi controllers 'play' button will enable 'play' in NS2? Also, can we get QWERTY keyboard support like Cubasis, spacebar support, keyboard shortcuts etc?
I’m pretty sure the answer to this is “no.” This update syncs the start/stop of the NS2 playhead with other apps/hardware via MIDI, not the other way around, which I’m pretty sure would take a whole lot more time to code.
Actually, I’m not sure. I think Link start/stop enables you to use another app to start/stop NS from the controller but I don’t know if Link supports playhead position, I’m guessing not.
So controller -> another Link capable app with support for the controller’s transport controls -> Link controls NS’s start/stop. Could maybe work?
does this update allow us to have midi playhead control where a midi controllers 'play' button will enable 'play' in NS2?
I was thinking of this question solely as MIDI controller… and I don’t know anything about Abelton Link. Maybe as dendy suggests there is a controller with that? I just searched the features of the Abelton Push 2 controller, but there was no mention of Abelton Link (weirdly). Maybe someone with that or similar controller can let us know if a $800 controller will remotely turn on/off NS2. Matt really should be designing controllers
does this update allow us to have midi playhead control where a midi controllers 'play' button will enable 'play' in NS2?
I was thinking of this question solely as MIDI controller… and I don’t know anything about Abelton Link. Maybe as dendy suggests there is a controller with that? I just searched the features of the Abelton Push 2 controller, but there was no mention of Abelton Link (weirdly). Maybe someone with that or similar controller can let us know if a $800 controller will remotely turn on/off NS2. Matt really should be designing controllers
Push is an Ableton Live exclusive controller, it’s not a standard midi controller at all. Ableton of course has Link support so the controller doesn’t need to.
I have NS2 running on my 1-week old 5th gen iPad Pro 12.9, just doing internal stuff with slate/obsidian. I have not restored even 1/10th of my audio apps yet. Have not tried sync/slave to MIDI, but will do that when I get back home - on holiday right now, and will let you know. I’ve moved to Bitwig and I had been requesting tighter NS2 (external) MIDI about 9 months ago, realizing that iOS and laptop can live together peacefully. Sometimes. Glad to hear you are OK, Matt. — Will Pirkle (toneman)
Question, does this update allow us to have midi playhead control where a midi controllers 'play' button will enable 'play' in NS2? Also, can we get QWERTY keyboard support like Cubasis, spacebar support, keyboard shortcuts etc?
I’m pretty sure the answer to this is “no.” This update syncs the start/stop of the NS2 playhead with other apps/hardware via MIDI, not the other way around, which I’m pretty sure would take a whole lot more time to code.
Question, does this update allow us to have midi playhead control where a midi controllers 'play' button will enable 'play' in NS2
unfortunately no.. this is just NS2->other app/hw sync
Althouth, theoretically, in case there is tsome link/start stop compatible app which is also capable to receive controller "play/stop" commands (midi mmc) - then this may work - you woukd be able to trigger play of this hypothetic app and then this app will trigger play in NS via Link.
Or maybe there is some HW midi controller directly supporting Link ?
I would gladly pay $20-$30 for IAP of Audio tracks.
Wojna, a generative iOS music app, offers a subscription or a yearly release that you can purchase. Once the new release happens, the previous year's release gets delisted. A yearly release will get bugfixes, and minor feature updates, but major features are saved for each yearly release.
Thanks for all the updates and hard work. I appreciate NanoStudio, and think it a great product.
@quidmonkey said:
I would gladly pay $20-$30 for IAP of Audio tracks.
Wojna, a generative iOS music app, offers a subscription or a yearly release that you can purchase. Once the new release happens, the previous year's release gets delisted. A yearly release will get bugfixes, and minor feature updates, but major features are saved for each yearly release.
Thanks for all the updates and hard work. I appreciate NanoStudio, and think it a great product.
@quidmonkey said:
I would gladly pay $20-$30 for IAP of Audio tracks.
Wojna, a generative iOS music app, offers a subscription or a yearly release that you can purchase. Once the new release happens, the previous year's release gets delisted. A yearly release will get bugfixes, and minor feature updates, but major features are saved for each yearly release.
Thanks for all the updates and hard work. I appreciate NanoStudio, and think it a great product.
May be a little complicated to explain to new users but this is a great workaround!
Comments
Everything @boomer said and then some.
Thing is Matt, I would definitely pay a subscription for your hard work on NS2, and I'm normally against subscriptions for tool apps. But to me, NS2 is more than worth subscribing to. I did a remix of a famous 90s Dance Music artist's song...
https://open.spotify.com/album/6fz2MA1xbY7xkwYm1mG6Yb?si=J6u7Knh3QpWbUShaZwY7NA&dl_branch=1
...100% in NS2. Sure I did it without audio tracks, but audio tracks would allow me to do things that Slate can't do.
So yes, I will subscribe.
i hate subscriptions for anything otger than Netflix or iCloud ..
I rather pay for app higher price, for example equivalent to 5 years of subscription and for every IAP too, but i simply need to have (completely irrational) subjective feeling of owning app, not just renting.
I need to be emotionally attached to app (or hw synth), to feel "it's mine, precious", like gollum :-), to be able to use it creatively..
I can't get any emotional attachment to something which is just "borrowed" for limited time..
@Blip Interactive I’d drop a hefty investment amount into NS2 just to keep it rolling. My investment is more in you than in features. I’d like you to be able to see your vision through. It makes me feel good knowing I funded such a killer product. I don’t need my name anywhere, just the satisfaction of knowing I kept something so great moving forward.
Personally I don’t care about audio tracks. If you want to do that and charge 30-40 bucks for it, go for it. Then all these people that say all I really need is audio tracks can put their money where their mouth is. I think they are all full of $h1t and are penny pinching Scrooge’s so I can see why you wouldn’t want to put that much effort into such a difficult undertaking for most of these people to complain about the cost and end up not buying it. As somebody said above, the people on AB are penny pinchers on, IMO, the dumbest things.
Instead, I think you could focus on IAP of new modules. Do that convolution reverb. Do a multiband compressor. Do an LFO module you can assign to parameters on modules. Make higher end versions of each of your components that might eat more CPU, but people know that when they use it because it’s the pro version of the plugin. Add some more processing modules in slate. Kind of go the drambo route where some modules just cost money...and that’s ok. Drambo doesn’t have audio tracks and people still use it
You are such a good product designer that if you came up with some creative modules, I think every owner of the app would buy them because they work seamlessly with the product.
I’d pay $100 for an audio tracks IAP right now and NS2 is the only app I would subscribe to.
Just my 2 coins… 😎👍🏼
I could imagine an audio tracks implementation that would perfectly satisfy me and I would pay quite a lot but the details of the feature I would want are probably unreasonable.
Re funding: I think the Wotja model makes sense for large complex applications. You pay a yearly subscription, and you get all the updates for that year (Jan 1 - Dec 31). If you stop paying, you can still use the features you've got, but you stop getting new features. That gives an incentive to the devs to keep building new features that their users want, while giving the users the option to stop paying and have a "locked in time" feature set. If a new feature appears that the user is interested in, you can renew your subscription and you get it plus any other new features for the rest of that year. Good for the user, and good for the dev who gets a recurring income each year. As a software dev myself, I think that's one of very few financially viable models for iOS development
Re community: many years ago I used to pay a considerable amount of money to large corporations for music gear. I put up with the feature set they provided, and they focused on building the features that most people would want so things tended to sound fairly generic.
In the iOS music community, it really feels like a community. There's good and bad people in any community, but that diversity is part of what makes it feel real. There's a bunch of outstanding devs building great tools like NS2, and a bunch of maniacs building weird and wonderful stuff that often sounds great to me but will only ever appeal to a tiny group of the small number of iOS music makers out there. There's people who use these tools to create things that amaze and inspire me, and others who feel an astonishing sense of entitlement for a one-off $5-10 investment. That's just the world at large. I get to send my money to a huge variety of small-time devs building stuff I find interesting, rather than a small number of huge corporates who don't care what I want.
The point of all this is that I feel like buying iOS music apps makes me part of a big community centred around a bunch of genius/lunatic app creators.
@Blip Interactive I'll happily kick in money to keep the NS2 community kicking along, and I'll do that for many other apps I use as well. Please find a way of taking money that you feel comfortable with, and let us show our gratitude. You make special stuff that brings joy to peoples' lives; please don't underestimate the value of that in today's world
❤️ 👍💯
Thanks Matt - can confirm working fine here on an M1 with ios14.
On the funding thing, NS2 is by far my most used app on any platform outside of things I use for work. I’ve waxed lyrical about it before on the AB forums, but I genuinely think NS2 is the best app I own - the attention to detail on how people interact on a touch interface is just art. So, obviously I’ve bought every single IAP just to support you, regardless of whether I think I would use them or not, but still I can’t pay you the amount of money I think the app is worth. I have the same ideological objections to subscriptions that @dendy does, however I would absolutely jump at the chance on NS2. Its value to me is many, many times what I’ve actually paid for it.
One thing I’ve seen popping up in apps recently is a tip jar IAP which could work here. I know personally, whenever I complete a track I get a rush of gratitude that would almost certainly lead me to tip every time. Sadly I’m probably not prodigious enough to fully fund it that way. But I can say with certainty, if you come up with any way for us who love your app to give you more money, I’m in. Kickstarter, Patreon, subscription, tips, whatever - I’m there.
Whatever you choose to do though, I hope it’s the best thing for you and your family. You owe us nothing, and you’ve given thousands of people many thousands of hours of pleasure. Thank you.
Great to see an update. Bite the bullet Matt, set up NS2 Pro subscription and see how it goes. I’m not that keen on subs but every so often I sub to Auxy and end up doing loads of music just because of the idea that I’ve wasted the subscription money otherwise. So roll on NS2 Pro and GIVE US EDEN AS AN IAP BECAUSE I STILL LOVE IT.
The programmer productivity tool #Resharper (I use this 100% of the time in my day job) has the subscription model others have described in this thread:
ie you pay a yearly subscription that gives you all updates for that year (bugfixes, new features, whatever).
If you choose to cancel the subscription, you then get to keep the software as-is of the moment the subscription is stopped - so you effectively own it as of that point with all of the updates that were included with the subscription up until that point - but of course you aren’t included for any further updates.
Restarting the subscription means paying a calculated one-off fee (equal to the equivalent subscription payments missed) to bring the software back up to the current latest release version, and then whatever the normal subscription cost to continue to receive the future updates for the period you have paid for.
I, personally, like this payment model and am happy to pay for #Resharper this way - it is a model I would more than happily pay for NS2 too, seeing as it is the epicentre of my music making efforts on iOS.
At least Waves has the same subscription model per plugin, and I distinctly remember bumping into it with other big name companies, so it’s not uncommon in desktop music software. But if Apple doesn’t offer it as an option, it’s a non-starter on mobile.
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/subscriptions/
I hear you but think of it this way……. “Precious” did not need maintenance and would never stop working because of an OS update. And imagine if “Precious” got upgraded regularly to make you love it even more. Are you emotionally attached to Netflix and iCloud? I doubt it. I only pay for them because I get something I want or need. I NEED ns2. More than I need to watch movies. And I would be sending my money to somebody who actually creates something, so that the rest of us can also create things. Win win win (Matt, us, and anybody who might enjoy our music). Not some corporate marketing bean counter. No offense to all you corporate marketing bean counters here
Peace.
weak force is actually very important, without it there would be no nuclear fusion inside stars, eg. no elements needed for life created, eg. universe would be cold dark lifeless place.
nanostudio would be never created !
don't underestimate weak force !
Scanned the link but I don’t see any new info on this page. Apple’s subscriptions are all or nothing. Not ”own software, rent updates”.
• NS2’s App Store price should be higher, since initial release.
• Yearly subscription is fine by me, and most would not object because it is by default optional. (Using #Resharper model wherein you can still use app w/o subscription).
• Instead of Kickstarter or similar (which require reaching a goal before pay out), can you just put a PayPal donate button on the web page? Matt then can set his own goals, and when a certain amount is achieved then a block of time is set aside for updates or new features.
I’m not looking a gift horse in the mouth - thanks for the update!
I also will not pressure for new features (also I generally don’t NEED them), but I hope instead you find a balance that let’s you continue with NS2 development at some point in the future as time/money and energy/enthusiasm allow. I agree with all the positive comments about NS2, and the happiness it allows me in my life. I hope you find the same.
Ahh. Misunderstood. I thought you meant Apple offering subscription at all. My bad.
that's ok, i'm just in love with physics and cosmology probably more than with music 😂
@dendy ?
I’m pretty sure the answer to this is “no.” This update syncs the start/stop of the NS2 playhead with other apps/hardware via MIDI, not the other way around, which I’m pretty sure would take a whole lot more time to code.
unfortunately no.. this is just NS2->other app/hw sync
Althouth, theoretically, in case there is tsome link/start stop compatible app which is also capable to receive controller "play/stop" commands (midi mmc) - then this may work - you woukd be able to trigger play of this hypothetic app and then this app will trigger play in NS via Link.
Or maybe there is some HW midi controller directly supporting Link ?
Actually, I’m not sure. I think Link start/stop enables you to use another app to start/stop NS from the controller but I don’t know if Link supports playhead position, I’m guessing not.
So controller -> another Link capable app with support for the controller’s transport controls -> Link controls NS’s start/stop. Could maybe work?
@Stiksi
looks like we're thinking same way 🤝
nope, just start and stop..
I was thinking of this question solely as MIDI controller… and I don’t know anything about Abelton Link. Maybe as dendy suggests there is a controller with that? I just searched the features of the Abelton Push 2 controller, but there was no mention of Abelton Link (weirdly). Maybe someone with that or similar controller can let us know if a $800 controller will remotely turn on/off NS2. Matt really should be designing controllers
Push is an Ableton Live exclusive controller, it’s not a standard midi controller at all. Ableton of course has Link support so the controller doesn’t need to.
But as usual, you’re the ninja. 😂
I have NS2 running on my 1-week old 5th gen iPad Pro 12.9, just doing internal stuff with slate/obsidian. I have not restored even 1/10th of my audio apps yet. Have not tried sync/slave to MIDI, but will do that when I get back home - on holiday right now, and will let you know. I’ve moved to Bitwig and I had been requesting tighter NS2 (external) MIDI about 9 months ago, realizing that iOS and laptop can live together peacefully. Sometimes. Glad to hear you are OK, Matt. — Will Pirkle (toneman)
That’s unfortunate. Would’ve been nice.
I would gladly pay $20-$30 for IAP of Audio tracks.
Wojna, a generative iOS music app, offers a subscription or a yearly release that you can purchase. Once the new release happens, the previous year's release gets delisted. A yearly release will get bugfixes, and minor feature updates, but major features are saved for each yearly release.
Thanks for all the updates and hard work. I appreciate NanoStudio, and think it a great product.
I like that model
May be a little complicated to explain to new users but this is a great workaround!