@LeeB said:
Strange that. Everyone else seems to getting along swimmingly with the app as it is.
Lol, everyone except for the people that aren’t. Erm, yeah you could say that about any piece of software
From the way you describe the app, it comes across as a real car crash. You know ‘lame’, ‘dull’. It really sounds like it’s not for you which is a shame. You said you was going to delete the app, but you still come here, so there must be a draw?
Why not give us some of your positive thoughts on it while you are here, because I don’t think I’ve heard any from you
Piano roll is nice. Take lanes are good. Obsidian is pretty nice, especially when you wanna keep an eye on cpu. There’s stuff to like. That stuff already exists though so I have no need to mention it
The app has been out less than a month. I think we’re seeing some unreasonable expectations from some users. The attitude comes across as “I want this feature and I want it now otherwise this app sucks and is totally useless!”. Maybe that’s not the intent but it sure is the tone at times.
@anickt said:
The app has been out less than a month. I think we’re seeing some unreasonable expectations from some users. The attitude comes across as “I want this feature and I want it now otherwise this app sucks and is totally useless!”. Maybe that’s not the intent but it sure is the tone at times.
Other than the one user in this thread saying he can’t use the app, due to Slate, to who, or what are you referring?
@anickt said:
The app has been out less than a month. I think we’re seeing some unreasonable expectations from some users. The attitude comes across as “I want this feature and I want it now otherwise this app sucks and is totally useless!”. Maybe that’s not the intent but it sure is the tone at times.
Other than the one user in this thread saying he can’t use the app, due to Slate, to who, or what are you referring?
Not you and not just this app. General observation
at some point note repeat will be for sure added. Actually one beta tester was fighting for it a lot ( warm greetings to @tom_tm :-)) but simply because of time reasons it was postponed. But definitely it is something which is on todo list !
With chromatic play of pads a bit more complicated. I'll try explain it - but please do not take it that i'm trying say it is not valid request ! Far away from that, i'm just trying explain why is this feature very unlikely to be added at least in next months (or maybe at all ?). It's better to know that in close or even middle time frame it is unlikely and to accept it, that expect or hope in something and then to be disappointed ...
First, important thing - Matt is trying to concentrate on stuff which is really not possible to do, his priority is adding features which opens new possibilities (+ of course fixing bugs like AUfx visuals or problems with some AUs).
You can play chromatically samples in Obsidian - so adding chromatic playback for Slate pad would technically not add new possibility , it would just add possibility of do same thing from different place.
Plus - i mentioned it many times - Matt's intention with Slate was to make lightweight Native Instruments Battery-like drum sampler, not something which confoms to MPC-like workflow.
But, back to my explanation - what is lot more important - adding per-pad chromatic playback would open whole new can of worms.
It would need significant amount of development in first place - which is maybe not everybody aware, but it would lead to maybe months of development and whole bunch of new users requests - thus postponing other highly expected features like iPhone compatibility, audio tracks, improvements in audio editor like slicing, etc etc ..
Why ? Think about consequences of ability to play pad chromatically - it's not just about connecting incoming midi notes to pad.
It means you need completely new view inside Slate UI, with keyboard and all stuff you need to configure pad for chromatic playback - it means basically duplicating Obsidian sampler oscillators inside Slate pad.
More important - you need save somewhere those notes and later to be able to edit them. (or do you think it makes sense to make pad chromatically playable without underlying ability to record/edit those played notes ?).
Currently Slate's part in sequencer contains one row per pad - but with chromatic playability it means that some kind of second level view inside part would be needed (like in BM3) - to be able "unpack" single pad row to see piano roll with notes ...
Then automatically arises another question - what with automation per pad ? What with per-pad FXs ? What with exposing every pad as mixer track ? Which would inevitably lead to requests like "i want save whole Slate bank including all mixer tracks, routings and effects on those tracks (like it is possible in BM3 or probably also NI Maschine) ..
And so on and so on and so on...
At the end you realise that if you start with adding chromatic playability per pad you end with copying most of main BM3 / Machine / MPC features into NS2 and completely changing direction with which was not just Slate but whole NS2 designed ... You change Slate's paradigm "NI Battery lightweight clone" to "MPC - like advanced sampling / performance workstation"
Hope you got my point. Again - not saying it is not valid feature request - i have a few my own requests which i dream to have inside NS2 - which i even don't mentione to Matt and probably will not at least for next year ) ... I fully understand that all requests are valid. Everybody can ask for anything he wants.
Just, based on my knowledge from 4 years of beta testing and lot of discussions with Matt about his intentions, plans, and reasons - i got some deeper insight to NS2, so i'm just trying to explain things, which aren't maybe so obvious at first look (which weren't obvious to me too, before i was invited to beta team)
@dendy I’m glad note repeat sounds like its on the short list of updates, that’ll be a huge win. Also, thank you for that eye opening perspective! Very enlightening and it’s amazing what he’s been able to accomplish thus far all things considered. I would still love to see it implemented in some form or fashion at some future date as development continues, if for no other reason other than I’m extremely comfortable and cozy in NS2 and don’t want to bounce around apps, but can clearly see why that probably wouldn’t happen for a while, if at all.
Different subject but since you’ve been behind the scenes I figured I’d ask, do you know the likelihood of ROLI Blocks (Loop Block for instance with Play/Rec/ etc that work in GarageBand and BM3) and/or HUI like transport controls being implemented, so that play, rec, rewind, fast forward, tempo etc can be done on a piece of hardware controlling the software? Thanks
I would still love to see it implemented in some form or fashion at some future date as development continues,
Of course - other side of thing is always "never say never" So maybe one day .. who knows ..
Different subject but since you’ve been behind the scenes I figured I’d ask, do you know the likelihood of ROLI Blocks
Or in other works MPE native support (this is not just Roli Blocks but also Seaboard)
This was already mentioned in some discussions, not exact timeplan for this but it is one of features to definitely consider because you're not first one who asked for it.
HUI like transport controls being implemented, so that play, rec, rewind, fast forward, tempo etc can be done on a piece of hardware controlling the software?
This means MMC (MIDI Machine Control) implementation. Ok, now you hit one of TOP positions (together with MIDI IN/OUT sync) of my personal wishlist :-D. I'm ready to start abuse Matt with this right after he delivers first update with most important fixes and tweaks , because i think this is one of very crucial features for deeper integration of NS with HW gear.
I was really hoping for a chromatic mode in Slate, but from reading @dendy explanation above, I get that it would be a lot of work and require a whole new view inside the Slate UI and the sequencer for editing midi.
As this is not likely to be added to Slate, it would be a real timesaver if there was an option in the hamburger menu to "Convert pad to Obsidian", which would open a new instance of Obsidian with that sample loaded, so at least we could play that sample chromatically with one button press! I think this would bring it quite close to Maschine/BM3 workflow.
Sorry for the bump, but didn't want to create a whole new post about it.
@cretakano said:
I was really hoping for a chromatic mode in Slate, but from reading @dendy explanation above, I get that it would be a lot of work and require a whole new view inside the Slate UI and the sequencer for editing midi.
As this is not likely to be added to Slate, it would be a real timesaver if there was an option in the hamburger menu to "Convert pad to Obsidian", which would open a new instance of Obsidian with that sample loaded, so at least we could play that sample chromatically with one button press! I think this would bring it quite close to Maschine/BM3 workflow.
Sorry for the bump, but didn't want to create a whole new post about it.
@anickt said:
Just use Slate to play the sample in Obsidian.
Doable but slow and clunky workaround compared to a legit pitch mode.
You can do a lot more with a sample in Obsidian and it takes seconds to set it all up. It's worth exploring for those who haven't tried it.
I’m talking about standard drum pad sampler programming workflow/functions. Fast/organic and tidy/concise in terms of experimenting with composition and also editing etc. For that kind of traditional pad sampler workflow it’d really benefit Slate to take a leaf out of the best alternative options that are out there already and add a chromatic mode per pad. I’m not saying that there aren’t workarounds, which have their own perks in some ways, just that chromatic mode would be a very welcome addition and possibly pull me back in to using NS a little more often.
Couldn’t AGREE MORE! If Slate had this along with NOTE REPEAT that can be played live, that’d be great. Finally digging into Obsidian and it is so deep! For now I’m sampling 808’s into it for better pitch playing (trap beats, r&b etc) and it’s powerful but tedious to set up. For drums with pitched hi hat variations, tuning kicks and snares etc it isn’t ideal at all, especially compared to BM3 and Maschine etc. Also if the keyboard had note repeat like Cubasis for arp creations etc that’d be cool too.
Yeah totally agree. And +1 for note repeat/rolls too
@cretakano have you tried copying the pad you want to play tonally to a number of pads, then pitching each pad differently using "transpose" under the "sample" page for that pad?
If you only want a few different pitches, that works really well. It also has the advantage that you won't need to change into a different mode to change whether you're playing all your pads, or just playing one tonally. (E.g. in BM3 you press "key", in Maschine MK3 you press the "Keyboard" or "Pad mode" button).
It takes only a minute to set up using the pad copy function. Don't forget you may want to put these pads into a group with a polyphony of 1 for longer samples!
One more benefit is that you don't need to "select" the pad you want to play tonally before you press "key" or "keyboard". I always find this clumsy on Maschine if I'm jamming live, so tend to use a whole group if I want to play anything tonally....
But maybe there's a way of working that's way different to what I've thought of....
@Trigger_the_Monkey Yeah that is what I've been doing, but playing samples on a keyboard with polyphony is much quicker for me, and I really like that workflow in Maschine/BM3.
One thing I've found interesting about these discussions on what NS2 should do next is that there are so many different ways we all work. That makes it really difficult to design s/w
Comments
It’s good to know it’s not all bad then 😃
The app has been out less than a month. I think we’re seeing some unreasonable expectations from some users. The attitude comes across as “I want this feature and I want it now otherwise this app sucks and is totally useless!”. Maybe that’s not the intent but it sure is the tone at times.
Other than the one user in this thread saying he can’t use the app, due to Slate, to who, or what are you referring?
Not you and not just this app. General observation
@T4H
at some point note repeat will be for sure added. Actually one beta tester was fighting for it a lot ( warm greetings to @tom_tm :-)) but simply because of time reasons it was postponed. But definitely it is something which is on todo list !
With chromatic play of pads a bit more complicated. I'll try explain it - but please do not take it that i'm trying say it is not valid request ! Far away from that, i'm just trying explain why is this feature very unlikely to be added at least in next months (or maybe at all ?). It's better to know that in close or even middle time frame it is unlikely and to accept it, that expect or hope in something and then to be disappointed ...
First, important thing - Matt is trying to concentrate on stuff which is really not possible to do, his priority is adding features which opens new possibilities (+ of course fixing bugs like AUfx visuals or problems with some AUs).
You can play chromatically samples in Obsidian - so adding chromatic playback for Slate pad would technically not add new possibility , it would just add possibility of do same thing from different place.
Plus - i mentioned it many times - Matt's intention with Slate was to make lightweight Native Instruments Battery-like drum sampler, not something which confoms to MPC-like workflow.
But, back to my explanation - what is lot more important - adding per-pad chromatic playback would open whole new can of worms.
It would need significant amount of development in first place - which is maybe not everybody aware, but it would lead to maybe months of development and whole bunch of new users requests - thus postponing other highly expected features like iPhone compatibility, audio tracks, improvements in audio editor like slicing, etc etc ..
Why ? Think about consequences of ability to play pad chromatically - it's not just about connecting incoming midi notes to pad.
It means you need completely new view inside Slate UI, with keyboard and all stuff you need to configure pad for chromatic playback - it means basically duplicating Obsidian sampler oscillators inside Slate pad.
More important - you need save somewhere those notes and later to be able to edit them. (or do you think it makes sense to make pad chromatically playable without underlying ability to record/edit those played notes ?).
Currently Slate's part in sequencer contains one row per pad - but with chromatic playability it means that some kind of second level view inside part would be needed (like in BM3) - to be able "unpack" single pad row to see piano roll with notes ...
Then automatically arises another question - what with automation per pad ? What with per-pad FXs ? What with exposing every pad as mixer track ? Which would inevitably lead to requests like "i want save whole Slate bank including all mixer tracks, routings and effects on those tracks (like it is possible in BM3 or probably also NI Maschine) ..
And so on and so on and so on...
At the end you realise that if you start with adding chromatic playability per pad you end with copying most of main BM3 / Machine / MPC features into NS2 and completely changing direction with which was not just Slate but whole NS2 designed ... You change Slate's paradigm "NI Battery lightweight clone" to "MPC - like advanced sampling / performance workstation"
Hope you got my point. Again - not saying it is not valid feature request - i have a few my own requests which i dream to have inside NS2 - which i even don't mentione to Matt and probably will not at least for next year
) ... I fully understand that all requests are valid. Everybody can ask for anything he wants.
Just, based on my knowledge from 4 years of beta testing and lot of discussions with Matt about his intentions, plans, and reasons - i got some deeper insight to NS2, so i'm just trying to explain things, which aren't maybe so obvious at first look (which weren't obvious to me too, before i was invited to beta team)
@dendy I’m glad note repeat sounds like its on the short list of updates, that’ll be a huge win. Also, thank you for that eye opening perspective! Very enlightening and it’s amazing what he’s been able to accomplish thus far all things considered. I would still love to see it implemented in some form or fashion at some future date as development continues, if for no other reason other than I’m extremely comfortable and cozy in NS2 and don’t want to bounce around apps, but can clearly see why that probably wouldn’t happen for a while, if at all.
Different subject but since you’ve been behind the scenes I figured I’d ask, do you know the likelihood of ROLI Blocks (Loop Block for instance with Play/Rec/ etc that work in GarageBand and BM3) and/or HUI like transport controls being implemented, so that play, rec, rewind, fast forward, tempo etc can be done on a piece of hardware controlling the software? Thanks
Of course - other side of thing is always "never say never"
So maybe one day .. who knows .. 
Or in other works MPE native support (this is not just Roli Blocks but also Seaboard)
This was already mentioned in some discussions, not exact timeplan for this but it is one of features to definitely consider because you're not first one who asked for it.
This means MMC (MIDI Machine Control) implementation. Ok, now you hit one of TOP positions (together with MIDI IN/OUT sync) of my personal wishlist :-D. I'm ready to start abuse Matt with this right after he delivers first update with most important fixes and tweaks
, because i think this is one of very crucial features for deeper integration of NS with HW gear.
I was really hoping for a chromatic mode in Slate, but from reading @dendy explanation above, I get that it would be a lot of work and require a whole new view inside the Slate UI and the sequencer for editing midi.
As this is not likely to be added to Slate, it would be a real timesaver if there was an option in the hamburger menu to "Convert pad to Obsidian", which would open a new instance of Obsidian with that sample loaded, so at least we could play that sample chromatically with one button press! I think this would bring it quite close to Maschine/BM3 workflow.
Sorry for the bump, but didn't want to create a whole new post about it.
@cretakano that is a very good suggestion!
That would be cool. 👍🏼
@cretakano that is good idea !
Same for me.
@cretakano have you tried copying the pad you want to play tonally to a number of pads, then pitching each pad differently using "transpose" under the "sample" page for that pad?
If you only want a few different pitches, that works really well. It also has the advantage that you won't need to change into a different mode to change whether you're playing all your pads, or just playing one tonally. (E.g. in BM3 you press "key", in Maschine MK3 you press the "Keyboard" or "Pad mode" button).
It takes only a minute to set up using the pad copy function. Don't forget you may want to put these pads into a group with a polyphony of 1 for longer samples!
One more benefit is that you don't need to "select" the pad you want to play tonally before you press "key" or "keyboard". I always find this clumsy on Maschine if I'm jamming live, so tend to use a whole group if I want to play anything tonally....
But maybe there's a way of working that's way different to what I've thought of....
+lots for note repeat, though
@Trigger_the_Monkey Yeah that is what I've been doing, but playing samples on a keyboard with polyphony is much quicker for me, and I really like that workflow in Maschine/BM3.
I just converted my whole Maschine library to Slate and most kits have lots of melodic samples, so it's a lot of work to set up all the extra pads and transpose each one. (See this thread - https://www.blipinteractive.co.uk/community/index.php?p=/discussion/1041/beatnano-script-converts-bm2-to-ns2-slate-kits-for-kit-maker-maschine-library )
Also +1 for note repeat too!
@cretakano I see - thanks!
One thing I've found interesting about these discussions on what NS2 should do next is that there are so many different ways we all work. That makes it really difficult to design s/w