no way this is issue with track automation also in 'big' daws ... Little help is that when you re inside track automation editor, you see in background timeline with clips, so you can use it for as reference when moving automation .. But not really shortut to move them all "at once, just one per one ...
maybe in "properties" of clip button "track automation lock" ? In this case moving clip would move also all track automations at it's position .. but then question arises, what with autiomations on place where you drop that clip .. override them ? Move them after clip end ? Probably settings option for that ? Will @Blip Interactive kill me for such insane ideas ?
I think if you just had the option to insert/delete time that would fix the problem. A way to do this would be:
Step1. Instead of the double tap setting whether I want to loop the selected rang of time on the timeline, have that double tap be similar to the Actions button for clips.
Step2. Now you have a choice on what you’d like to do with timeline functions. I can now insert/delete as much time as I want based on the amount of time selected on the timeline and in what location. I could also have the nice green arrow to show the options to insert time on the selected tracks (use in conjunction with the multiple track selection marked as Step3 in the diagram) or all tracks.
With this work flow you could keep the existing move clip/keep automation the same behavior, but whenever you insert/delete time all automation is either shifted or removed.
Note: This would only add a single click to the current _double tap loop toggle behavior._
———
Honestly this is a huge workflow problem for me. I’m working on this song and I always do automation last because I don’t really know what I want to do with volume, panning, filters, effects changes, etc until the song is getting flushed out. I had an idea to insert four bars after the intro because, you know, I should be able to do that and now I have to shift about 30 separate automations four bars across various tracks just to make that happen. I literally don’t want to work on this song anymore. If it’s going to be that tedious, then the song is now done from an arrangement perspective because shifting shed loads of automation takes the joy right out of it, so...I’m done with it.
So in summary, I should be able to alter my song arrangement any time I want to in the process because creativity works that way. Not being able to alter my automation in a similar way to altering my clips makes it nearly impossible to do.
Well done, first person to notice this deficiency. I thought someone would notice it much sooner. It's definitely on my radar - some sort of 'track automation moves with edits' option.
Didn't used Reaper for a long time but i remember feature "insert empty space in selection" which simply did this with all clips and track automations (so everyting in loop selection was moved to right)
additionaly there was also "remove contens of selection (move later events)" which was also applied on both clips and track automations
Ableton just moves everything with the selection, both hidden and visible. I hadn’t thought about it before but it’s pretty brilliant. It’s easy to rearrange a track, just go -select loop area- and drag. No need to split, that’s handled automatically too. But that solution needs area selection as opposed to object selection.
@Stiksi said:
Ableton just moves everything with the selection, both hidden and visible. I hadn’t thought about it before but it’s pretty brilliant. It’s easy to rearrange a track, just go -select loop area- and drag. No need to split, that’s handled automatically too. But that solution needs area selection as opposed to object selection.
Right. Ableton is my PC DoC and I guess I’m just used to that behavior. Seems automatic to me. My head doesn’t think about it haha.
As I chew on implementation ideas for this I basically just come down to "Damn. This is a tough nugget" over and over again. Everything I think of shows shortcomings immediately. Like, I don't even get the full 5 seconds of thinking I've had a good idea!
The ability to globally insert a blank span of time and have everything shifted right by that amount like @drez suggested doesn't solve for all use cases but sounds like a good idea to me and it seems like it would solve the painful case he's described. +1
I'm kicking this thread again because...its starting to seriously trigger me haha. I know there are tons of other great things to work on, but this...this really kills me. If I was only doing volume ramps that would be one thing, but unfortunately that's just not the case because that's where you have to automate all the effects. I've resorted to trying to just do the arrangment first and THEN automation but it seriously locks you in when you can't get an idea if I need 4 more/less bars here or there. Once I start automating I tend to start really figuring out the length of sections.
Anyway, just throwing a rock with a note on it through your window
For the record, when moving parts in the Arrange window in Logic, Logic always asks if you wish to also move controller data, which if you answer 'yes', it keeps moving it from there onwards each and every time parts or tracks are moved or edited. But I feel your pain @drez. Very frustrating until it gets fixed. (Which it will!)
Hi chaps, I’ll chip in! yeah it is really bummer sometimes so I can feel others pain! Good news is that Matt is aware of that so I guess that’s only matter of time. I like that solution with option as Matt stated so it can be switched off an on as required, I use Cubase and there it is exactly like that and it’s great. So when you need blank space either left or right, you just tick automation follows events or something like that( can’t remember since I don’t use it anymore since december you know:DDD) and move parts/arrangements as you pleased. But any way will be good as long as it is not manual like now:)
Comments
no way
this is issue with track automation also in 'big' daws ... Little help is that when you re inside track automation editor, you see in background timeline with clips, so you can use it for as reference when moving automation .. But not really shortut to move them all "at once, just one per one ...
maybe in "properties" of clip button "track automation lock" ? In this case moving clip would move also all track automations at it's position .. but then question arises, what with autiomations on place where you drop that clip .. override them ? Move them after clip end ? Probably settings option for that ? Will @Blip Interactive kill me for such insane ideas ?
I think if you just had the option to insert/delete time that would fix the problem. A way to do this would be:
Step1. Instead of the double tap setting whether I want to loop the selected rang of time on the timeline, have that double tap be similar to the Actions button for clips.
Step2. Now you have a choice on what you’d like to do with timeline functions. I can now insert/delete as much time as I want based on the amount of time selected on the timeline and in what location. I could also have the nice green arrow to show the options to insert time on the selected tracks (use in conjunction with the multiple track selection marked as Step3 in the diagram) or all tracks.
With this work flow you could keep the existing move clip/keep automation the same behavior, but whenever you insert/delete time all automation is either shifted or removed.
Note: This would only add a single click to the current _double tap loop toggle behavior._
———
Honestly this is a huge workflow problem for me. I’m working on this song and I always do automation last because I don’t really know what I want to do with volume, panning, filters, effects changes, etc until the song is getting flushed out. I had an idea to insert four bars after the intro because, you know, I should be able to do that and now I have to shift about 30 separate automations four bars across various tracks just to make that happen. I literally don’t want to work on this song anymore. If it’s going to be that tedious, then the song is now done from an arrangement perspective because shifting shed loads of automation takes the joy right out of it, so...I’m done with it.
So in summary, I should be able to alter my song arrangement any time I want to in the process because creativity works that way. Not being able to alter my automation in a similar way to altering my clips makes it nearly impossible to do.
Well done, first person to notice this deficiency. I thought someone would notice it much sooner. It's definitely on my radar - some sort of 'track automation moves with edits' option.
Bless you. I’ll come babysit for you guys when you get this one implemented!
Yea, we can go with tousands of complicated ideas and then Matt comes usually with single one simple which solves everything
Yah it is a classic tricky one.
Edit: PS: Does Reaper do something cool for this?
@Audiogus
Didn't used Reaper for a long time but i remember feature "insert empty space in selection" which simply did this with all clips and track automations (so everyting in loop selection was moved to right)
additionaly there was also "remove contens of selection (move later events)" which was also applied on both clips and track automations
‘Shift/func’ button would come in useful for this kind of stuff.
Ableton just moves everything with the selection, both hidden and visible. I hadn’t thought about it before but it’s pretty brilliant. It’s easy to rearrange a track, just go -select loop area- and drag. No need to split, that’s handled automatically too. But that solution needs area selection as opposed to object selection.
Right. Ableton is my PC DoC and I guess I’m just used to that behavior. Seems automatic to me. My head doesn’t think about it haha.
Possibly more productive if you offer to babysit for Matt so that it can be implemented.
As I chew on implementation ideas for this I basically just come down to "Damn. This is a tough nugget" over and over again. Everything I think of shows shortcomings immediately. Like, I don't even get the full 5 seconds of thinking I've had a good idea!
The ability to globally insert a blank span of time and have everything shifted right by that amount like @drez suggested doesn't solve for all use cases but sounds like a good idea to me and it seems like it would solve the painful case he's described. +1
Yeah, it’s a can of worms all right but so good if it’s done right!
I'm kicking this thread again because...its starting to seriously trigger me haha. I know there are tons of other great things to work on, but this...this really kills me. If I was only doing volume ramps that would be one thing, but unfortunately that's just not the case because that's where you have to automate all the effects. I've resorted to trying to just do the arrangment first and THEN automation but it seriously locks you in when you can't get an idea if I need 4 more/less bars here or there. Once I start automating I tend to start really figuring out the length of sections.
Anyway, just throwing a rock with a note on it through your window
For the record, when moving parts in the Arrange window in Logic, Logic always asks if you wish to also move controller data, which if you answer 'yes', it keeps moving it from there onwards each and every time parts or tracks are moved or edited. But I feel your pain @drez. Very frustrating until it gets fixed. (Which it will!)
Hi chaps, I’ll chip in! yeah it is really bummer sometimes so I can feel others pain! Good news is that Matt is aware of that so I guess that’s only matter of time. I like that solution with option as Matt stated so it can be switched off an on as required, I use Cubase and there it is exactly like that and it’s great. So when you need blank space either left or right, you just tick automation follows events or something like that( can’t remember since I don’t use it anymore since december you know:DDD) and move parts/arrangements as you pleased. But any way will be good as long as it is not manual like now:)
Just bumping this? Did it ever make it into a release? (beta or otherwise)