Clipping cant see it in mixer.

Eye0sStudiosEye0sStudios
in Support

So starting a new project,and when I mixdown it shows I clipped. Am I missing a setting in mixer to see this? I never see them go in red.

Comments

  • Blip InteractiveBlip Interactive

    I wouldn't worry too much if you feel it's not clipping. If the mixdown sees more than about 4 samples in a row going over the clip threshold then you'll get this just to let you know it's there, but if you can't hear it then it's probably fine.

    If you want to 'mute' that warning, put a limiter on the MAIN MIX track with a short latency and set its threshold to maximum. It'll not do much lookahead limiting, but it will control those transients.

  • Eye0sStudiosEye0sStudios

    Thanks Matt!!!!!

  • flockzflockz

    @Blip Interactive said:
    I wouldn't worry too much if you feel it's not clipping. If the mixdown sees more than about 4 samples in a row going over the clip threshold then you'll get this just to let you know it's there, but if you can't hear it then it's probably fine.

    If you want to 'mute' that warning, put a limiter on the MAIN MIX track with a short latency and set its threshold to maximum. It'll not do much lookahead limiting, but it will control those transients.

    Would mastering engineers agree with you here? Isn’t any clipping at all a big no-no, whether audible or not? Why aren’t mixer channels showing this clipping?

  • StiksiStiksi

    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

  • flockzflockz

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

  • StiksiStiksi

    @flockz said:

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

    It’s not that they can’t recognize it, it’s just not worth reporting to the user. And yes, severe clipping can cause needle jumps. But that means stuff that’s clearly and audibly clipped.

  • dendydendy

    here crucial video about clipping... it's primary related to reason, but because nanostudio processes everything internaly in 32bit format all concepts described there can be applied no NS..

  • tjatja
    edited December 2018

    @dendy said:
    here crucial video about clipping... it's primary related to reason, but because nanostudio processes everything internaly in 32bit format all concepts described there can be applied no NS..

    Now, Reason also has 64 Bit on the master channel.
    And what NS2 wrote there, sounds like clipping on the master channel on mixdown.
    Interesting topic

  • kleptoliakleptolia

    @flockz said:

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

    There are actually engineers who “push” the mix into the red a little for the sound. Tape saturation could be considered a form of clipping. Compression is also a form of clipping.

    All overdrive is clipping. What makes the overall difference is how much of the frequency is being clipped and whether the resultant distortion is pleasant to the ear.

    That’s what I’ve always understood, anyway. Could be mistaken.

  • recrec

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

    There are actually engineers who “push” the mix into the red a little for the sound. Tape saturation could be considered a form of clipping. Compression is also a form of clipping.

    All overdrive is clipping. What makes the overall difference is how much of the frequency is being clipped and whether the resultant distortion is pleasant to the ear.

    That’s what I’ve always understood, anyway. Could be mistaken.

    In analog domain pushing into the red is common practice, yes. In digital, 32 bit (floating) will keep you safe from unpleasant surprises, for individual channels. But the final mix should not clip IMO, that can harm some sensitive equipment (eg. D/A), but that's why we use limiters at the and of master chain.

  • flockzflockz

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

    There are actually engineers who “push” the mix into the red a little for the sound. Tape saturation could be considered a form of clipping. Compression is also a form of clipping.

    All overdrive is clipping. What makes the overall difference is how much of the frequency is being clipped and whether the resultant distortion is pleasant to the ear.

    That’s what I’ve always understood, anyway. Could be mistaken.

    Yeah I push non-digital all the time. Just never heard of it as being a non-issue in digital master bus before. But not my area really...

  • kleptoliakleptolia

    @flockz said:

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

    There are actually engineers who “push” the mix into the red a little for the sound. Tape saturation could be considered a form of clipping. Compression is also a form of clipping.

    All overdrive is clipping. What makes the overall difference is how much of the frequency is being clipped and whether the resultant distortion is pleasant to the ear.

    That’s what I’ve always understood, anyway. Could be mistaken.

    Yeah I push non-digital all the time. Just never heard of it as being a non-issue in digital master bus before. But not my area really...

    Yeah. You’re right. I just completely lost my mind there.

  • kleptoliakleptolia

    @rec said:

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

    There are actually engineers who “push” the mix into the red a little for the sound. Tape saturation could be considered a form of clipping. Compression is also a form of clipping.

    All overdrive is clipping. What makes the overall difference is how much of the frequency is being clipped and whether the resultant distortion is pleasant to the ear.

    That’s what I’ve always understood, anyway. Could be mistaken.

    In analog domain pushing into the red is common practice, yes. In digital, 32 bit (floating) will keep you safe from unpleasant surprises, for individual channels. But the final mix should not clip IMO, that can harm some sensitive equipment (eg. D/A), but that's why we use limiters at the and of master chain.

    Yes. My comment was completely off. Thank you for that.

  • flockzflockz

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

    There are actually engineers who “push” the mix into the red a little for the sound. Tape saturation could be considered a form of clipping. Compression is also a form of clipping.

    All overdrive is clipping. What makes the overall difference is how much of the frequency is being clipped and whether the resultant distortion is pleasant to the ear.

    That’s what I’ve always understood, anyway. Could be mistaken.

    Yeah I push non-digital all the time. Just never heard of it as being a non-issue in digital master bus before. But not my area really...

    Yeah. You’re right. I just completely lost my mind there.

    Nah, you were on point, i was just saying that wasn’t the kind of clipping I was discussing :)

  • kleptoliakleptolia

    @flockz said:

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

    There are actually engineers who “push” the mix into the red a little for the sound. Tape saturation could be considered a form of clipping. Compression is also a form of clipping.

    All overdrive is clipping. What makes the overall difference is how much of the frequency is being clipped and whether the resultant distortion is pleasant to the ear.

    That’s what I’ve always understood, anyway. Could be mistaken.

    Yeah I push non-digital all the time. Just never heard of it as being a non-issue in digital master bus before. But not my area really...

    Yeah. You’re right. I just completely lost my mind there.

    Nah, you were on point, i was just saying that wasn’t the kind of clipping I was discussing :)

    Never bring an analog knife to a digital gunfight.

    “Samsonite! I was way off! Knew is started with an s, though...”
    😆

  • flockzflockz

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @kleptolia said:

    @flockz said:

    @Stiksi said:
    From what I’ve read and seen, mastering engineers don’t mind peaks going over for a few samples. It’s not going to break anything and you won’t hear it. If it bothers you, it’s easy to take the level down or use a limiter like Blip said. No VU meter I’m aware of will show clipping of a couple samples.

    NS is way more accurate than your average app. It might result in a false red flag or two.

    Showing my ignorance here, thanks for clarity ;) Id always assumed in a digital environment a daw channel VU would always register ‘clipped!!!’ And convey it. Didn’t realise they weren’t that accurate. Seems strange that they aren’t though, considering it’s all solid boundaries and calculus etc, funny that they can recognise and register clipping super accurately at mixdown but not in real-time use.

    Re mastering engineers, I think it’s one conversation I had in particular that my brain is thinking of where I was told that this kind of clipping can cause needle jumps on vinyl. Could be total nonsense though. I took that guy to know what he was talking about and have never really researched it myself. I just avoid the red and then let mastering guys do their thing...

    There are actually engineers who “push” the mix into the red a little for the sound. Tape saturation could be considered a form of clipping. Compression is also a form of clipping.

    All overdrive is clipping. What makes the overall difference is how much of the frequency is being clipped and whether the resultant distortion is pleasant to the ear.

    That’s what I’ve always understood, anyway. Could be mistaken.

    Yeah I push non-digital all the time. Just never heard of it as being a non-issue in digital master bus before. But not my area really...

    Yeah. You’re right. I just completely lost my mind there.

    Nah, you were on point, i was just saying that wasn’t the kind of clipping I was discussing :)

    Never bring an analog knife to a digital gunfight.

    “Samsonite! I was way off! Knew is started with an s, though...”
    😆

    Haha :)

  • NyankoNyanko
    edited December 2018

    @flockz said:

    @Blip Interactive said:
    I wouldn't worry too much if you feel it's not clipping. If the mixdown sees more than about 4 samples in a row going over the clip threshold then you'll get this just to let you know it's there, but if you can't hear it then it's probably fine.

    If you want to 'mute' that warning, put a limiter on the MAIN MIX track with a short latency and set its threshold to maximum. It'll not do much lookahead limiting, but it will control those transients.

    Would mastering engineers agree with you here? Isn’t any clipping at all a big no-no, whether audible or not? Why aren’t mixer channels showing this clipping?

    I think Dan Worrall explains it in a fabfilter tutorial video. Even though the mixing app doesn't show clipping when played, you have to give a little room anyway cause the final audio processing tends to overreach for higher DBs and some professional tools exists to make sure it won't happen like Pro L2.

  • dendydendy
    edited December 2018

    in case you do export from NS in 24 or 32 bit, you don't need take a care about any clipping at all.

    for exporting to 16bit, it is always good turn on limiter on top level "main mix" track, and ideally put gain fx before limiter, then rewind to most busy part of track and adjust that gain the way, that if you switch back to limiter, "reduction" vu meter does not jump more than -1 to -4 dB. You can leave all settings of limiter tomit's defaults

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